(Yet another) Byrd Cara Cara review

[Dog of War]

Following are my notes and some photos of a Bryd Cara FRN, PE, I recently received.

Out of the box, the Cara Cara push cuts newsprint at 1.8-1.95" from point of hold, a very high level of sharpness for a factory blade.

Factory edge measurements (#1 nearest to tip, #3 near back of blade) and calculated included angle:

Bevel L/R, Thickness, Angle

#1 .034/.040" .024" 45 deg.
#2 .038/.042" .025" 41 deg.
#3 .040/.033" .020" 37 deb.


Action is quite smooth, however the lockbar spring seems weak: inertia opening is extremely easy and the blade will stay partially open with tip only about 1.2" from handle:

There's a small amount of vertical and lateral play with the blade open, but the lock seems secure except for white knuckle risk with some holds - Boye detent could be deepened, and a stiffer lockbar spring would help as well. The factory spring has a significant left-right bend and appears burred on the end so could be dragging on steel liner:

IMO this particular knife would be very unsafe to carry tip-up in the condition received (though tip down could pose some risk of injury to the femoral artery or gender modification. )

Ergonomics are generally quite good, especially with index finger in choil:

Jimping appears laser cut, but is comfortable and increases purchase significantly, only objectionably sharp on second ridge from top on thumbrest. Slightly rough texture of FRN seems to improve grip, molded handle pattern offers some grip improvement but only in certain directions. Comet hole works very well, generous size and nicely radiused to prevent thumb from slipping out while not being abrasive.

The unpainted pocket clip seems to be quite stout with no sharp edges, and when installed for tip down carry gives a low ride in the pocket:

Folded the Cara Cara presents a mostly smooth and pocketable profile .... no snagging gap between the handle and back of blade (like Spyderco's Paramilitary and D'Allara models for example) and only thumbrest jimping might look to cause wear on clothes or scratch other items in pocket.

Although there are no problems with lock engagement or with the the knife's action in general, other than the weak lock spring already mentioned, machining and finish in the lock area is somewhat crude:

As received I would call this particular knife unsatisfactory because of safety concerns mentioned, and assume I could get a warranty replacement. Being an inexpensive knife, I decided instead just to fix it myself.

Lockbar spring removed, showing burr and slight L-R bend:

The spring is softer than what you expect with spring steel and can be easily filed. Elasticity is low as well, making rebending very (too) easy. During reassembly some of the additional arch added was lost, but a worthwhile improvement in lock tension was achieved. In fact the spring is a very odd piece, crudely cut and bent and made from rough semi-square, semi-round stock, about .01" wide and thick; hard to believe this is a standard engineered production piece.

FWIW the spring doesn't seem to be the only problem here, lockbar length and geometry are contributing factors ... as it is the spring contacts the lockbar too close to the fulcrum point. However a new lock spring of quality spring steel, with more elasticity and slightly shorter than the factory spring, could solve the problem.

Disassembly also found the center hole in one of the bronze washers used at the blade pivot to be damaged and installed off center:

A couple light taps with a small hammer flattened the washer out much better than I thought it would, functions smoothly.

BTW the Cara Cara is not an easy knife to reassemble if you have less than three hands. Compared to some FRN lockbacks I've disassembled without steel liners, the handles are surprisingly flexible, so combined with the thin liners I think handle strength may not be particularly high. This construction and use of the bronze washers also allows the blade to flop somewhat from side to side when closed even with the pivot set fairly snug.

Since I primarily got the Cara Cara wanting to check out this blade steel and its reported 61 hardness, I hope to get around to some routine edge testing soon. After that I may decide to do some more demanding tests, especially the handle which I'm skeptical of. Suggestions for additional work anyone would like to see are welcome.

 

[Eager]

Good review. So maybe it's not quite the silk purse people have been describing. I just ordered one so I guess I'll find out soon enough.

 

[pageophile]

The G10 version is stellar Bang for the buck is off the meter

 

[Dog of War]

So maybe it's not quite the silk purse people have been describing. I just ordered one so I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Not sure I'm ready to say it's a sow's ear, and have to assume mine isn't typical. It's always disappointing to get a knife that isn't right, especially so when it affects safety. With a little trial-and-error I'm pretty sure I can fit a new lock spring with a simple change I have in mind that will be a real improvement. The hardest part may be just scrounging up the steel wire or rod I need.

Let me know how yours is, Eager.

 

[gunmike1]

The G10 version is stellar Bang for the buck is off the meter

No problems with my G-10 version either. It only has a hint of vertical play and was slightly burred from the factory, but it has really impressed me. It takes a really good edge, and holds a shaving edge for a good while for my EDC uses. Initially it burred more than VG-10 for me when I was sharpening it, but after I did a slight reprofile to 10 degrees to remove a couple small chips, it has been excellent as far as not forming burrs. But I have been cutting straight into the stone prior to sharpening after using it heavily between sharpenings, and that may be part of the reason for the lesser burrs.
I like it so much that I'm buying a few more for gifts, and another one for me.

This thread is the first I have seen with a serious problem with a Byrd, but it is a production item (at low cost). It's enevitable some problem knives are going to get out (no matter who the manufacturer), but Spyderco is great with their warranty department. I got an Endura Wave with excessive blade play, and they sent me a new one in short order. As you would pay about as much in shipping as the knife costs with an FRN Byrd, I can see why you just fixed it yourself. The examples of Byrds that I have seen and handled all showed above average fit and finish, not just for the price point but for even for knives costing much more. New Graham will hand pick out knives you order for one that has no play, if you ask. I would recommend anyone do that if they order from an online retailer.

 

[anthony cheeseboro]

I have to say both of my G-10 Byrds are great. i have had no problems at all.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... machining and finish in the lock area is somewhat crude:

The Meadowlark and Cara Cara I have both have similar finish on the end of the lock bar, they all lock up fine though. Pretty severe problems on that one.

Disassembly also found the center hole in one of the bronze washers used at the blade pivot to be damaged and installed off center

That is pretty drastic.

After that I may decide to do some more demanding tests, especially the handle which I'm skeptical of.

For heavy cutting or extensions to utility applications?

-Cliff

 

[moonwilson]

Obviously you got a lemon. That's pretty unusual for a Byrd. I don't understand the need for the FRN version in the first place. The G10 version costs basically the same and is a phenomenal knife any way you look at it. I constantly sing the praises of mine. The fit and finish on mine surpassed that of my Manix in some ways, right out of the box, the tolerances are ridiculously tight. The lockup is extremely tight, giving a satisfying and loud "snap" when it engages. I'm buying a boxful of G10 Cara Caras for Christmas presents this year.

 

[Dog of War]

... machining and finish in the lock area is somewhat crude

The Meadowlark and Cara Cara I have both have similar finish on the end of the lock bar, they all lock up fine though. Pretty severe problems on that one.

Despite the rough appearance the action is really very smooth. Rebending the lockbar spring has things working well now, perhaps fixing the bronze washer helped too as did lubrication. It appears that to compensate for the weak spring the pivot was adjusted more loosely from the factory, I now detect no verical or lateral blade play when open. Lockbar tension is much improved, pretty stiff actually, but finding I had some #35 drill rod around (amazing the shit I accumulate ) making a new and hopefully better one is just a matter of getting up the motivation.

BTW, wondering about your thoughts on this, Cliff .... The problem with the lockbar design IMO is that the spring contacts the lockbar only about 1/4" behind the pivot. This means the spring has roughly a three- or four-to-one leverage disadvantage. Because it can be made to work like this with a fairly inelastic spring, it seems to me that a more elastic spring that contacts the lockbar further behind the pivot could be made to work better. There could be a complication here if the 'hump' in the lockbar where the pivot hole is located is actually keeping the spring in its socket, which could be, I didn't check when I had the knife apart. But I can think of a couple ways to possibly deal with that.

Disassembly also found the center hole in one of the bronze washers used at the blade pivot to be damaged and installed off center

That is pretty drastic.

I'm certain I know what happened there, the washer was out of position when the pivot pin was inserted and it simply punched a piece out, off center, you can see this in the picture of the washer. That I could repair it so easily is the big surprise.

After that I may decide to do some more demanding tests, especially the handle which I'm skeptical of.

For heavy cutting or extensions to utility applications?

Prying, in particular. I question how much lateral force the handle can take. The liners and FRN scales are flexible enough I think the lockbar itself and the FRN spacer at the back of the handle will be taking a lot of lateral force. I suspect the liners on this knife could bend and buckle under force that many solid FRN handled knives could handle.

Obviously you got a lemon. That's pretty unusual for a Byrd. I don't understand the need for the FRN version in the first place. The G10 version costs basically the same and is a phenomenal knife any way you look at it. I constantly sing the praises of mine. The fit and finish on mine surpassed that of my Manix in some ways, right out of the box, the tolerances are ridiculously tight. The lockup is extremely tight, giving a satisfying and loud "snap" when it engages. I'm buying a boxful of G10 Cara Caras for Christmas presents this year.

No reason to believe this knife is typical, but similar problems have been reported by others already. You don't get zero failures/returns on a $17 production knife of this caliber unless the company is trying to go out of business.

I think the FRN version is for people like me who don't want the knife heavier than it needs to be, and may not even like G10 (which I generally don't.) To me the purpose of G10 on a knife like this isn't clear, although the G10 knife may be much stronger in this particular case. I will admit too that the handle on the FRN Cara Cara is truly ugly, I usually don't care about that but in this case it's impossible not to notice. But others may think it's gorgeous, who knows?

I gave a lot of VG-10 Calypso Jrs. for gifts, some spur of the moment from my pocket. I thought my commission from Spyderco would be continued production of those little beauties, but alas.....

 

[misque]

My God! That lock face and that blade tang make my Caracara look like a custom made piece. The lock face on mine is very close to mirror smooth and the blade's tang is way smoother than the picture of yours. Now, the notch is kind of rough looking, but, the lock-up is quite tight leaving no blade play in any direction. It's the same story with my SS Meadowlark.

The folder you have needs to be sent back. :/

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The problem with the lockbar design IMO is that the spring contacts the lockbar only about 1/4" behind the pivot.

You need a large leverage advantage on the release as otherwise it would be too difficult to release. The main strength of a lock back doesn't come from the spring actually resisting the blade trying to push up the bar but rather that the rotation of the blade won't actually induce a significant upward force on the lock bar because of the geometry of the notch which translates the force to try to pull the lock bar forward which it can resist very strongly.

I question how much lateral force the handle can take.

I watched an older Endura handle stay stable and the blade crack off, however a new Salt got very wobbly fast with no signifiant bend in the blade. I think this is a critical point because if the handle isn't comparable in strength to the blade you might as well make the blade thinner because the strength isn't a functional advantage.

-Cliff

 

[gunmike1]

I just ordered 2 more G-10 Cara Cara's from New Graham, and they are picking out ones with solid lock up for me. I will report on the fit and finish on them, I'm expecting it to be good like my current one (actually ex-one, I just gave it to my wife's grandfather).

 

[Vivi]

I received a G10 Cara Cara today (Finally!) and the lock-up is perfect. It has some minor cosmetic flaws, but it is functionally sound. I'll be posting a review soon as well, comparing it to the Meadowlark.

 

[Dog of War]

You need a large leverage advantage on the release as otherwise it would be too difficult to release. The main strength of a lock back doesn't come from the spring actually resisting the blade trying to push up the bar but rather that the rotation of the blade won't actually induce a significant upward force on the lock bar because of the geometry of the notch which translates the force to try to pull the lock bar forward which it can resist very strongly.

Yeah, I can see where a very small change here could be overkill. Earlier today I was using the Cara Cara with a plastic mallet to cut wooden shims, and I caught myself depressing the lock. Deepening and widing the Boye "dent" (apparent that's what it's actually called) will help, but I want to replace the funky spring anyway. I've never seen a lockback lockbar spring as thick as this, nor as plastic. Also would like the blade to close more aggressively .... as it is this knife Brownie pops like no other lockback I've ever handled, no doubt the blade Schnabel has something to do with both behaviors.

I watched an older Endura handle stay stable and the blade crack off, however a new Salt got very wobbly fast with no signifiant bend in the blade. I think this is a critical point because if the handle isn't comparable in strength to the blade you might as well make the blade thinner because the strength isn't a functional advantage.

IIRC correctly the older Enduras didn't have steel liners, right? I think that's a factor here, plus "FRN" can be a lot of things. I've seen Zytel does pretty surprising things, but who knows about Chytel?

BTW one thing I've grown to appreciate about your tests and reviews is that you look at each piece as an overall system. When a manufacturer for example puts a thick, heavy blade in a tactical folder, you need to assume it's an invitation to some very hard, non-cutting use. Anymore I find myself noticing an awful lot of "mismatches" on knives.

Also, preliminary edge retention testing with the Cara Cara has been pretty positive, this behaves like I'd expect from a 60 HRC+ steel. Doesn't seem premature at this point to commend Spyderco, I like what I see with this steel for a knife so inexpensive. Having several other knives I've been meaning to benchmark I've started comparisons on a number of knives head-to-head for initial edge retention. I'll probably post results as a new thread, this is really interesting work, IMO.

misque, I appreciate the specific comments. As it turns out I think I'm the kind of guy who you want knives with a few problems to go to because I love tinkering and solving problems, for me that's a big reason for the knife hobby anyway. And my macro photography skills have improved incredibly just taking pix for this.

gunmike, Vivi .... hope you'll feel free to post your findings to this thread or at least add links to your own threads. I have to admit I'm interested in the G10 Caras, some side-by-side comparisons with the FRN would be interesting. Despite the issues with the knife I received, I can certainly understand why people really like these knives.

 

[zpaulg]

Looks like you got a Friday knife, unlucky.
My Cara Cara has been just fine.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

.... look at each piece as an overall system.

Yeah, this is the bottleneck principle or the weakest link viewpoint, you examine the critical points. A knife should be designed with an intended purpose and all elements of it should be so goaled. Since every aspect has with its increase a corrosponding decrease in another aspect, it makes no sense to have a design which is severely unbalanced because you are just losing performance for no gain. A lot of times though you have to realize that certain aspects are due simply to sell the product.

When a manufacturer for example puts a thick, heavy blade in a tactical folder, you need to assume it's an invitation to some very hard, non-cutting use.

Yes, why else use it. Standard materials like cardboard, ropes and such are cut with 0.3 mm blades (1/32"), the rugged ones for wood cutting and such where there is a lot of lateral torque and you are using basically full wrist strength are only 0.5 mm.

These are of course short blades, about an inch or so, so to get the necessary stiffness in a longer blade you have to account for the greater torque. But since stiffness is cubic in thickness and torque only linear in length it doesn't take much thickness to compensate for a longer blade. This is why even 1/16" blades are very stiff even when 4" long because they are 8 times as stiff as a 1/32" blade.

It is nice to see some negative feedback on the line to keep the perspective grounded plus such commentary can only help the product improve.

-Cliff

 

[gunmike1]

I got my 2 new G-10 Cara Caras today, and both are very solid in lock up. 1 has a hint of vertical play, the other has none. Of course, I asked New Graham to pick me out a couple with tight locks. The blades are spyderco sharp, above shaving, and push cutting newsprint close to 2 inches from the point of hold. The finish on the tang where it meets the lockbars is very rough, along with the sides of the lock bar. It is slightly gritty, but with some tuf glide they smoothed right up. 1 is a gift, the other I will keep for some comparisons with some of my other knives, and the most abusive chores I use a knife for. I will also probably get it hollowed out much more and try to go with a nice, thin angle on it.

 

[Eager]

Not sure I'm ready to say it's a sow's ear, and have to assume mine isn't typical. It's always disappointing to get a knife that isn't right, especially so when it affects safety. With a little trial-and-error I'm pretty sure I can fit a new lock spring with a simple change I have in mind that will be a real improvement. The hardest part may be just scrounging up the steel wire or rod I need.

Let me know how yours is, Eager.

I received my G-10 CaraCara today from BestDarnKnife along with a Crow. The CaraCara is quite impressive. I have no issues with it whatsoever and the springback is fine, except maybe that the end of the clip sticks out too far for me. Why can't all clips be like that on the BladeTech Large Hunter. All in all it's really nice. Of course it's not as good as my favorite knife the BladeTech Large Hunter in G-10. I tend to think that yours was either not typical or maybe the batches of the G-10 models came out better. I don't have what it takes to take mine apart though.

The Crow isn't quite as good. The liners seem overly thin whereas the liners of the CaraCara (and the blade) are a bit too thick for my preference. The Crow liner lock sticks a bit, maybe it will wear in. The clip is too tight to function, maybe I can loosen it a bit. And it's a bit small for my preference. I think I'll try a Raven and give some away for Christmas. I like the G-10 CaraCara and have been carrying it, which is something because it's hard to get the BladeTech Large Hunter out of my pocket.

 

[redhawk44p]

I think my G 10 Cara is probably the best knife deal I ever had. It is built like a $100 knife. The blade takes and holds an awesome edge. No vertical or horizontal play.

 

[Gramps]

I got the Cara stainless model......I agree that its well built, however it rides like a lead weight in the pocket. I wouldn't EDC it. I regret not buying the G10 version...but I see it is about the same weight as the stainless......the FRN would probably work best for me as it weights the least.

I thought I might relegate it to kitchen duty......however the design allows only a fraction of the blade to make contact with food on the cutting board; the end of the handle interfers with efficient slicing unless one holds the blade at an abnormally high angle in relation to the flat surface. Obviously the knife was not designed for food prep...that's OK..it has plenty of other merits: locks up tight, comes sharp in the the box, nicely machined with great fit and finish, bargain basement pricing. No complaints !

I'll use it as a "garden" knife come spring......it will work well as such. While working in the yard, I'm prone to putting a knife down and then forgetting where I placed it.......the all stainless finish will aid in sight recognition.

-regards