Yet another Damascus Question of a noob.

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Dec 4, 2009
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Other than ordering 1084 and L-6 to make a brick, (along with a list off suggested steels) Is there a general rule to what will make a good combination.
I can't seem to find anything that everyone talks about.

My local steel shop has tons of nice bar stock that nobody in there myself included knows what is. Take some Aisi 01 for example.

Sorry for the question but I haven't been able to find a list of things that go together, off from the repeated combinations.

-Thanks
 
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1084 and 15n20 is the most common and recommended combination.

15n20 is the same as 1084, but with a bit of nickel in it so it has good contrast.

o1 and L6 is another combination for "high performance" damascus, but can be red short and more difficult to work.

The general rule is that they should have similar physical characteristics so they shape and form without de-laminating.
They should also have a difference in nickel or some other alloy that will give contrast.

AISI o1 is o1 as defined by American Iron & Steel Institute
just call it o1 ( Oh 1)
http://www.kalyanicarpenter.com/aisi-1-ats.htm


These books may help
see the 3 by Jim Hir... for damascus info.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203
 
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I have only made a few knives but they have all been from 01 and 1095, seem to hold an edge well, I can take my 1st one and chop wood with it for fire starting, I have bent it a good 3-4"(it is about a 10" blade) and it has not broke, chipped, or anything. But I am not recommending it, if it is not annealed just right it is hard as hell to work with.
 
If you're just starting out, stick to 1084/15n20. It is a good combination with good contrast, and good working characteristics that will allow you to concentrate on the basics of process and technique. It's also easy material to get (Talk to Aldo Bruno for 1084 and Kelly Cupples for 15n20).

O-1/L6 is a great combination, but has some gotchas that could make a learning curve a bit steep.

-d
 
Other than ordering 1084 and L-6 to make a brick, (along with a list off suggested steels) Is there a general rule to what will make a good combination.
I can't seem to find anything that everyone talks about.

My local steel shop has tons of nice bar stock that nobody in there myself included knows what is. Take some Aisi 01 for example.

Sorry for the question but I haven't been able to find a list of things that go together, off from the repeated combinations.

-Thanks

Unless the L6 is from Admiral, in which case is it 8670M, I would strongly advise not mixing it with a 10xx series steel. I know you will get many makers who will tell you that they have combined these two with great success, but there are also a very large number of makers who believe that any saw steel is L6, that Admirals "L6 alternative" is L6, or that there is no difference between 15n20 and L6. I however know actual L6 quite well and have worked with it my entire career and I would not mix it with a shallow or water hardening steel if I could avoid it.

15n20 is not L6 but it is a fantastic alternative that mixes very well with any 10XX steel, it would also work great with W1 or W2. It welds and works much easier than L6 but heat treats just like 1075 or 1084 and when mixed with any of these carbon steels will give a beautiful high contrast and really great cutting ability.

8670M (or Admirals L6 alternative) is a very good steel by itself but also welds very nicely to many alloy steels. It heat treats quite similar to 5160, and gives a rather duller contrast. It wouldn't be my first choice to mix with 10XX steels but I would put it with them before ever considering L6.

O1/L6 is the mix I am known for and I have been playing with it for more years than I can count (or care to ;)) , it is a real powerhouse on performance, but I will be flat out honest with you that I don't believe the trouble it is to work with would be worth it for most folks. The reason I stuck it out and worked around all of its quirks is that it best matches my heat treating set up, and I already understood it inside and out before I realized how much of a pain in the @*$ it really was compared to other combinations.

A good way to see if a mix is something you want to spend much time on is to weld up a bar of the two steels with around 40 layers or more and twist it up good before forging it into a square rod. Normalize it to room temp a couple times and sight down it. most mixes may corkscrew just a bit if not matched pretty well in their cooling curves, but a poor match will really spiral on you. This will be that kind of distortion you can expect in heat treating the stuff, and some is bad enough to pull itself apart.

The best performing damascus will not force you to make choices on which of its components will be heat treated properly. The best performance I have observed came from well matched mixes allowed both steels to be heat treated to their best. 15n20 and 1080 would be one of those.
 
Thanks for the help

I picked up several pieces of o1 and 1080, I'm looking to order 15n20 or L6 which ever i can find first.

Mabey I can get going pretty soon.

Thanks again yall
 
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We do a lot of 1095x15n20 and 1084x15n20..You cant go wrong with either. Ive done some weird combinations in the past like w-1x5160 or 1095x4140 just for kicks and its not worth the trouble. The first two I mentioned weld like glue and are dandy steels.
Kelly Cupples is a good source for 15n20, thats were we get ours. L6 is awsome but kinda hard to find real L6..A lot of big circular saw blades are really 1080+ 2% nickle, not really L6..Most good bandsaw blades are 15n20 like uddenholm..
 
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