Yet another Emerson thread in General....

F^ck'em, if they want to listen to people digging up bad history and the ravings of a screwball that can't even write a review on par with a 5th grader...what?

Seems to be the norm for that particular venue.
 
I hear ya, Don.
No matter what is said to defend EKI, those holding a grudge against EKI will continue to do so.
 
Originally posted by Don Rearic
F^ck'em, if they want to listen to people digging up bad history and the ravings of a screwball that can't even write a review on par with a 5th grader...what?

Seems to be the norm for that particular venue.
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Does gator need to be an English teacher in order to properly critique a knife? Does having less than great grammar or spelling diminish someone's opinion, or knife knowledge?

With all due respect, I am having trouble understanding how a certain few on these boards go out of there way to point out how calm, logical, and careful they are to not attack the poster but debate the argument, etc. Yet some of these same people have attacked someone because he wrote an unfavorable review of a knife that you personally esteem. You attack his writing skills instead of debating the points of his unfavorable critique.

We need a little more fairness and a little less hypocrisy on these boards, in my ever so humble opinion.
 
Originally posted by komondor
We need a little more fairness and a little less hypocrisy on these boards, in my ever so humble opinion.
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And we need alot less trolling, vendettas and bullsh*t too, when is it going to happen?

You don't understand English either, do you?

Read my last couple of posts in the LOCKED thread, that sums up why I think it is unfair to continue to POUND on EKI after problems have been solved and your insistence to have the right to do so makes me want to GEEF.

And the trolling is allowed, the new "Emerson Controversy" thread should have had a link placed in it to the other locked thread, then the new one should have been locked down as well.

Instead of perpetrating a cycle of nonsense.
 
FOR THE LEARNING IMPAIRED

From the General Forum.

Originally posted by Don Rearic:
LOOK. One more time...

If there were QC problems in the past and I did not have one mind you, just taking people at their word...

And the QC problems are OVER NOW.

How is it FAIR or an "HONEST OPINION" or "JUSTIFIED" to tell a person new to this Forum or new to EKI that they're JUNK?

Do you understand what I am saying?

That is the power of a Forum in the negative, to take business away from a Manufacturer for "past sins." Do you understand now what I have been trying to say about three of four times in this thread alone?

How much is enough?

To be "fair, honest and just," from CURRENT EVENTS, not things that happened months ago...one could say the following about EKI:

"The black finish wears off easily on the screws. I don't like chisel ground knives. I don't like liner locks. There was a problem with stop pin breakage a couple of weeks ago..."

Do you now see what I am talking about?

I'll tell you something friend, now I'll bash some company.

In my experience, from the knives I owned from Benchmade, I would rather have the screw finish wear off of a screw that was not CROSS-THREADED and STRIPPED at the Factory.

That was my experience with BM, YET, you do NOT see me starting threads about past history because I do not own currently Manufactured BMs except for their Balisongs.

I hope this clears it up.
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What I find odd is how so many people are quick to call us Emerson fans arrogant, snobbish, closed minded, etc, and label us with an "If it ain't an Emerson, it ain't a knife" kind of mentallity.

They must not track us very well, because in all the time I have spent on these forums, I can only recall the any Emersonians criticizing two other makers, namely Farid and Ryan Wilson. These criticisms were based on the pretty obvious copying of Emerson's CQC-6 knife. Even at that, guess what? One of the Suspects buys a Farid knife, then post a great review of it here and, BANG!, suddenly a bunch of Suspects are asking for Farid's contact info so they can order some of their own. If we were really so closed minded, the attitude toward him would not have changed so quickly.

As far as criticizing somebody because they can't write a review using proper grammar, English, punctuation, etc, I will say this: If you feel that your opinion is so important that you are going to post it in a public forum, you better be ready for some public criticism. I honestly get heartbroken when I saw people from Sweden, Germany, Hong Kong, and other foreign countries submitting posts that are easier to read and more understndable than some from our own great country. I expect more from my fellow citizens. How hard is it to refer to a dictionary, thesauras, or basic writing book occasionally?

All my love,
 
Don,

Although I more or less stood up for rogue spear in that other Emerson thread, wondering why he was being singled out, I will agree with you on how you think he is trolling, and how some of his incessant remarks are unnecessary.

However, I am talking about Gator here. All he did was write a review, he never submitted that review to the forums. It was just used as an example by rogue spear. That is a clear case where the messenger should have been admonished, not the message. Yes, later on, Gator did have some active words on the thread, but he was only defending himself against, what appeared to many, to be slurs.
 
Originally posted by scott475
As far as criticizing somebody because they can't write a review using proper grammar, English, punctuation, etc, I will say this: If you feel that your opinion is so important that you are going to post it in a public forum,
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As far as I know, Gator never submitted that review. It was posted by rogue spear, so there is absolutely no justification for attacking his speech. And again, how someone writes or spells has NO bearing whatsoever on their views or knowledge on knives, or any other technical object.
 
Like it or not, Grammar, Spelling, and Vocabulary are excellent indicators of an individual's level of intelligence. The ability to form coherent sentence structures indicates the presence of an ordered and logical mind.

I have been reading your posts under the assumption that you possess a certain level of intelligence based upon those three standards, will you now tell me that I am incorrect to do so?
No, I thought not.

There is another significant indicator. That a person would put a grammatical train wreck on the internet where it can be seen by thousands demonstrates extreme poor judgement on the part of the writer. It indicates that he/she either does not know or does not care that their command of the English Language and by extension, their general level of intelligence is woefully sub-standard.

Considering the flagrant and unavoidable nature of the above four indicators, I feel perfectly comfortable in dismissing just about everything the original author may have to say, and it does not bode well for rogue_spear that he should choose such poorly presented material as documentation of his claims.

If someone is offended by this?
Learn to read and write.
 
I agree with the proper use of the English language. If you are a poor typist, fine. If you aren't from this country, it's understandable. If you graduated from High School, shame on you for not being able to put together a structured post. If you mispell a word or too, that's ok too. I am convinced that it is a lack of caring that leads to these ignorant posts. If you don't care enough to post something to the best of your ability, then don't post it. It must not be important enough for others to read.

In reference to Farid, I met him at the Blade Show and he was almost frantic in his efforts to redeem himself to the Emerson folks. It was almost sad. Some of his knives (folders) were so large it was laughable, but I don't know how well they perform. I will say that some of his stuff looked very Emerson-like. I'm not sure I'd want Ernie after me, so I see why he was frantic about the whole copy thing.

On Ryan Wilson....I saw some of his stuff also at Blade. Yep, his folder looks like an Emerson too. I haven't been real impressed with his designs, and I think that he wouldn't be known if his daddy wasn't Bill Wilson. But, you have to start somewhere. Hell, most of the knives out there look like they were designed by Bo Randall. As long as the knife is not an exact copy, I don't think that a maker should be crucified over it. Hell, there are only a finite number of ways to shape a blade and handle.
 
Forgive my "spamming" posts, but it is the only way
I can compeltely rebut you, since I keep getting clicked offline.

Originally posted by Ken Cook
Like it or not, Grammar, Spelling, and Vocabulary are excellent indicators of an individual's level of intelligence. The ability to form coherent sentence structures indicates the presence of an ordered and logical mind.
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Absolutely, positively wrong. Being able to form coherent sentence structures, at least written, has nothing to do with logic. It does have a lot to do with being articulate and verbally oriented (as opposed to math oriented). Having poor grammar means you arn't that good in English. Spelling is nothing but a very specific form of memory. I challenge anybody to tell me otherwise. A good vocabulary is an intellectual luxury, it is not necessary in any realm of logic or cognizant analysis. Some of the most logical people I know are overall-wearing, hard working farmer types, who would have trouble writing a articualte review on a particular John Deere model. Does that mean he cannot write a worthy review on the tractor? Are his opinions on tractors less worthy than those who are good in English?
 
Originally posted by Ken Cook
I have been reading your posts under the assumption that you possess a certain level of intelligence based upon those three standards, will you now tell me that I am incorrect to do so?
No, I thought not.
There is another significant indicator. That a person would put a grammatical train wreck on the internet where it can be seen by thousands demonstrates extreme poor judgement on the part of the writer. It indicates that he/she either does not know or does not care that their command of the English Language and by extension, their general level of intelligence is woefully sub-standard.
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Because I appear to be intelligent on these boards because of the quality of my grammar, spelling, etc. doesn't logically follow that someone who has trouble writing will not be intelligent. In fact, general intelligence is not as issue here. For all we know his IQ could be 47, but he may be an expert on knives. I said it before, and I'll say it again, the quality of someone's grammar and writing has absolutely NO bearing on his knowledge of knives, or any technical object. Zip. Nor should his opinions be considered less important than someone else's.

I don't think there was any poor judgment on his part. He was simply writing a review. I'm sure he is not concerned what others may feel about his writing ability. The ones that go to his site want to know about knives, they don't go there to enjoy his grasp of the English language.
 
Originally posted by Ken Cook
Considering the flagrant and unavoidable nature of the above four indicators, I feel perfectly comfortable in dismissing just about everything the original author may have to say, and it does not bode well for rogue_spear that he should choose such poorly presented material as documentation of his claims.
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You have every right to dismiss his review. I cannot question you on that. We all agree rogue spear was a little over zealous in his attempt to criticize EKI. He was looking for any unfavorable review.
 
...to put forth an effort?

A smart person will know that there are things that he can do to improve the quality of his grammar, and in doing so, improve the chances that his post will be taken seriously.

I do two things to help myself, that may benefit someone else.

I have a paperback dictionary on my desk, and I get a lot of use out of this site.

http://www.refdesk.com/

If this helps someone, fine. If someone is offended, that is your problem, you can make an effort, or be perceived as lazy. It is up to you.
 
I divide logic into two areas. Philosophical logic, and mathematical logic. It helps to keep things clear, without as much confusing overlap. Philosophic logic does deal with sentence structure, and grammar in philosophic logic can, and does change the meaning and validity of a statement. Logic in mathematics is different, because it deals with numeric propositions. They do overlap at times. You can turn a syllogism into a proof and by verifying the proof you verify the syllogism as formally correct, but you still have to examine the propositions themselves. Let me give you an example from a professional philosophical paper that's in the area of philosophy I deal with most, philosophy of religion. This is from a paper on divine knowledge.

This affirmation of an A-theory of time does not, however, bring any clarity to the logical issues raised. Utilizing the medieval distinction between the senses, however, consider the proposition

2. A future event can fail to occur.
In sensu diviso, (2) means

3. Possibly, an event, which is future, will fail to occur
and is true if the event is contingent. But taken in sensu composito, (2) means

4. Possibly, an event which is future will fail to occur,

which is necessarily false.
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Source: "Hasker on Divine Knowledge." Philosophical Studies 67 (1992): 57-78.


Now, I don't have perfect grammar by any means. But even I can recognize that there's a difference. The first statement means possibly a future event which MAY occur will fail to do so(at least that's the basic idea). The second means possibly a future event that WILL occur will fail to occur, and that's a contradiction. So, grammar is important in certain applications of logic.
 
We picked this guy Gator's review apart once before. The problem I have with it is he seems to take a special joy in picking apart the Commander. I in turn, take a special joy in picking apart things I don't understand as well. :D Savvy?

This is interesting;

From the review:
"so what do we got here, probably a fighter? That's what most of the Emerson fans claim anyways. I would prefer a longer blade for that purpose though."
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Claim? No, it's a fact. Some of the finest defensive folders in my opinion, I have ever seen. So, I guess it comes down to whose opinion matters more. Others can decide that.

You would prefer a longer blade for that [fighting] purpose though? Well, OK, recurve blade adds a little bit more slashing ability than the length of the blade would lead some to believe...

Longer for slashing or thrusting?

Thrusting hard compresses flesh, therefore, a knife can penetrate a great deal deeper than the length of the blade.

From the review:
"And on the fighting knife, or tactical, or whatwver you name it, the blade, that is intended for rough use which potentially includes strong impacts, excessive lateral loads, torqueing, one would definitely want a stronger locking mechanism than the liner lock Commander has."
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When people grow a vise in their abdomen, get back to me.

From the review:
"I have several reasons that make Commander not suitable for everyday carry:

The size - Commander is some wide piece for a folding knife, so wearing it in your jeans pocket is quite inconvenient."
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OK, damn, you never mentioned that about the SIFU which is a bit larger...

This is simply goofy. Come'on. "Inconvenient?" Gimme a break.

From the review:
"The blade - Chisel grind, that Commander is featuring, practically excludes slicing cuts, however it's good for slashing, a bit less suited for stabbing and easy to sharpen, but not the Commander..."
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I'm sorry, WTF is a slash compared to a slicing cut? Are we still speaking in the defensive realm? What? Good for slashing, it is harder to SLASH than to cut. A deliberate cut will almost always have the benefit of more pressure. A slash is a very fast thing, you're trying to tag someone out in the fray. If a Commander will not deliberately slice, whatever you wish to call it...yet it will slash...in the opinion of the reviewer, I think we are speaking two separate languages.

A "slicing cut" might happen when one is being choked, and I'll kiss your ass if one of my Commanders will not cut someone's arm down to the bone.

Less suited for stabbing? Well, sure, there are knives that penetrate easier. However, the Commander will do just fine, especially since people routinely die from screwdriver stab wounds. Not quite as pointy as the old Commander... Do a search right here in the Emerson Forum for the name "Egnath." You'll see a nice quote about points and pounds per square inch of pressure focused on a point.

From the review:
"The Commander's recurve blade is rather wide. Matter of fact, out of all my folding knives, Commander has the widest one, even though the blade itself is relatively short, only 3.75 inches long, it is thick & it is wide."
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Well by golly, you just described a better wound channel on the thrust!

From the review:
"...although to open Commander knife with one hand, using just your thumb is not very easy task..."
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Does the Reviewer have a working thumb so they can re-try this? :rolleyes:

From the review:
"The screws - they are slot screws or Philips ones, not torx as one would expect in high quality knife."
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No, as YOU would expect on a high quality knife. I am quite fond of the fact that I can take this thing apart without needing special tools, thank you very much.

On a Benchmade, you need to discourage people from fiddling with the knife, taking it apart voids the Warranty...doesn't it?

From the review:
"The disk opener - many complain it is getting loose & becomes a real hassle to tighten it all the time. Besides it is not really any better than other, conventional style thumb openers."
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The reviewer chastised me for chastising him about this the last time I wrote about it. He reminded me that his disc did in fact come loose, why did he say "many complain" then? He is the only person that I have ever seen report that and I have never experienced it.

"Conventional style thumb openers?" Is the disc unconventional?

Disc, hole or stud is a personal preference in my book, it just so happens I was hooked on the disc opener from a BM CQC-7.

As for all of the pissing and moaning about chisel grinds...on a Defensive Folder, it makes no difference, if the damned thing is razor sharp, it will cut you to the bone. Argue that all you want. Love it or hate it, it does not matter, that is a FACT.

Locks? Egad...here we go around in circles once again...

I think part of the problem with the review is, many of the things he criticized are of absolutely no consequence whatsoever on a Defensive Folder.

Remember, a Defensive Folder is not really something that you look at on the table and say, "I know someone is waiting for me outside, and I have to choose between this fixed blade and this folder, which shall I choose?"

DUH.

Take a fixed blade. Don't take a handgun to a fight involving a Sniper Rifle either, pick up a rifle.

In the immortal words of Knifemaker Jerry Hossom, "Those things bend in the middle..."

And when something bends in the middle, of course it is going to be inherently weaker in that particular aspect of construction when compared to a similar object of the same material that does not "bend in the middle" [hinge].

Alot of the points in the article that were terrible were due to a complete lack of knowledge on just what a Tactical Knife is when employed as a Defensive Edged Weapon.

I will now allow you to pick apart my grammar :D , it is 4:35, and it is time for me to go home.
 
Don,

Thank you for posting that information in here. I have just looked at a couple of my non-Emerson, Quality knives and I need to send them back to the maker as they do not have Torx screws.

My Walter Brend Model 2 folder uses Hex/Allen screws and my John W. Smith folder uses plain old slot ones.

I am glad that I now know how to identify a high quality knife - I will now go back to buying production ones with Torx screws. There can be no other way.........

Regards,

Ed
 
Since it is a subj. for quite some time.
Mostly this goes to Ken, Don and John Hollister, but probably other who might be irritated with my bad english, and may be not only with that :)

Originally posted by Ken Cook
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Like it or not, Grammar, Spelling, and Vocabulary are excellent indicators of an individual's level of intelligence. The ability to form coherent sentence structures indicates the presence of an ordered and logical mind.
Probably true, when this is about one's native language. English is not my native lang.
John, I've never had any english teacher so you don't really have to worry about that. All I've learned was in last 4 years, I understand that's not enough, yet what is the proposal here, I shut up untill I get to the level and meet the demands? Or write only positive EKI messages?

Considering the flagrant and unavoidable nature of the above four indicators, I feel perfectly comfortable in dismissing just about everything the original author may have to say, and it does not bode well for rogue_spear that he should choose such poorly presented material as documentation of his claims.
Very interesting. Especially in simple cases like that. So, if someone tell you in very poor english, don't touch it, it's gonna kill you, you will "feel perfectly comfortable in dismissing just about everything the original author may have to say"? Is that so?


Originally posted by Don Rearic
And in my universe, language does in fact matter
Originally posted by Ken Cook
Learn to read and write.
If you do not mind, Don and Ken, could you please point me to your message where you criticise someone for his/her poor english, when he/she is being positive about EKI? Or so far no Emerson Fan, especially foreigner, had any grammar problem(s)?
IMHO this is called hypocrisy(did I spell it right?).


When I said I don't like disk opener Don stated:
the choice of Manual Opener really is an intensely Personal Taste and Feel.
Ok, fine, who's arguing? But when I said "IMHO 3.75 inches is too small" Don calls me a midget. I can't have my humble opinion about the blade length Don? Apparently, in Don's universe those personal tastes are allowed only on manual openers, and that only if you favor disks. And so on...


Originally posted by Don Rearic
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and you should avail yourself of online tutorials, Sir.
Thanks for the advice, believe it or not I am trying ;) Unfortunatelly not being a student, I have to spend most of the day at work.

P.S. As of your messages, I can see how you use your perfect english - WTF, F%#$%k em, etc.. How eloquent. Is that comming from online grammar tutrotials?
 
Originally posted by Don Rearic
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The problem I have with it is he seems to take a special joy in picking apart the Commander. I in turn, take a special joy in picking apart things I don't understand as well. :D Savvy?
Not really.
1) Don, what makes you think I enjoy describing problems or writing negative reviews about the knife for which I've waited for 3 months and paid 150$? I liked the knife and I bought it, or you think I got the knife to start picking on UR favorite maker? If you think that, than it's a bit paranoid you know, just like your avatar ;)
It's a knife and I wrote as I thought, is that so hard to believe?

2) Like any other fan of any other maker you can't stand to hear anything negative about UR favorite maker and that's the main reason for all your hysterical messages.
 
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