(yet another) Steel Question

R

Ryan J

Joined
Jul 14, 2014
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233
I've read a few tests and, ahem, heated debates pertaining to steel testing on here. In the last one I read, forum member HardHeart made a good point. He stated that the debated test was actually testing knives, not steel. It seems to be the same with the CATRA results I've studied.
So my question is, does anyone know if steel tests have been performed using knives of different steels with identical grinds, geometry, edge finish, etc? Basically identical knives of different steel? And if so do you have links? Thanks
 
NO, have never seen a test where the same knife with identical geometry, grinds, heat treat, etc was tested in different steels.
 
Ryan J said:
Basically identical knives of different steel?
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Many makers and manus have tried a handful of different steels for their favorite designs, and come to their own conclusions. Which by the nature of keeping a business afloat, include many considerations of cost, and what actually sells at what price-point...

I for one would love to conduct an experiment like that on a larger, serious pure-performance basis and have it peer-reviewed... it's just that even given the same geometry and staying within the "normal" range of hardness and finishes, and choosing only six or a dozen of the most common/popular/widely-recognized-as-among-the-best knife alloys (as well as some old standards to establish a baseline), it would be awfully costly.

If anyone wants to sponsor it and give me $100K+ to cover materials, HT costs, consumables, CATRA and Charpy testing, serious metallurgical lab analyses, administration of all that, and my labor, I'd be very happy to spend a few months or a year doing nothing but grinding the same blade out of various alloys and see what really happens. :) I think it would be fascinating...
 
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Wolf_HR said:
But the question is why... Isn't that the point of Mule Team project?
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I believe that is the point, and good on Spyderco for addressing it. I'm pretty sure that ongoing project doesn't make a whole lot of money for them directly, but they are providing the whole industry and customer base a service by tackling it and letting the results speak for themselves. :thumbup:
 
james terrio said:
Many makers and manus have tried a handful of different steels for their favorite designs, and come to their own conclusions. Which by the nature of keeping a business afloat, include many considerations of cost, and what actually sells at what price-point...
Click to expand...

Like James said, I think its done more privately for the benefit of the makers knives instead of public research. There is plenty of real world use research already out there showing what steels are appropriate for which applications. The thing is, is that those steels are so good at what they do that personal preferences have to take over to determine which is used over the other. It can only get so scientific.

james terrio said:
I for one would love to conduct an experiment like that on a larger, serious pure-performance basis and have it peer-reviewed...
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Sign me up:D
 
james terrio said:
Many makers and manus have tried a handful of different steels for their favorite designs, and come to their own conclusions. Which by the nature of keeping a business afloat, include many considerations of cost, and what actually sells at what price-point...

I for one would love to conduct an experiment like that on a larger, serious pure-performance basis and have it peer-reviewed... it's just that even given the same geometry and staying within the "normal" range of hardness and finishes, and choosing only six or a dozen of the most common/popular/widely-recognized-as-among-the-best knife alloys (as well as some old standards to establish a baseline), it would be awfully costly.

If anyone wants to sponsor it and give me $100K+ to cover materials, HT costs, consumables, CATRA and Charpy testing, serious metallurgical lab analyses, administration of all that, and my labor, I'd be very happy to spend a few months or a year doing nothing but grinding the same blade out of various alloys and see what really happens. :) I think it would be fascinating...
Click to expand...

Kickstarter? I'll sign us up. I mean, we have 277,627 members as of this writing. 100k is 36 cents each towards scientific discovery and the furthering of my obsession. Consider my quarter, dime, and penny in the mail.

Well here's too wishful thinking. And Wolf thanks for that Mule team link. I was unfamiliar with the program. I've been reading it and it's interesting and fairly close to what I was asking about. I suspect my wife will not be nearly as enthusiastic about my new discovery once I figure out how to buy them.
Upon further review I realize buying one isn't going to happen. Would of been sweet to get in on though. S30V for $84.99
 
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Aaron Gough did a set of tests on identical knives (by hand) that he put through a series of tests to determine what he would use in his performance line. look it up 'on youtube to see if it fits what you were thinking.
 
1. Aaron's tests are awesome. Definitely good watching.

2. Kickstarter won't do anything with "weapons," which includes pocket knives. Believe me, I've looked.

3. Steel sells. It's just the way it is. We sell to knife knuts. Generally, people want to try different stuff. Its human nature.
 
There are ways to reduce or eliminate the effects of various geometries from different knives. Fortunately, 2 of the most influential factors, sharpness and edge angle, are pretty easily controlled by the end tester. The other factors, like primary grind angle, edge thickness, force in the cut, sharpness measurement, etc., can be minimzed or neutralized.
 
Comparing steel to steel with matching geometry would be very interesting. However, many steels are tough enough to leave a thinner edgem thus making them cut much better than a thicker edge. To "handicap" a superior steel with a geometry suitable for an inferior steel would be to leave a lot of its inherent advantage on the table. Of course, if this is known and accepted...at least we will know the comparable wear resistance of the various steels.
 
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