You asked for it, steve - gunong

kronckew

kronckew

Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
3,407
Hi y'all

steve ferguson caught me sharking this on e-pray & asked me to post pics when it arrived. well, it arrived this morning:

gun1.jpg


gun2.jpg


10.5 in. LOA, nicely sharp blade 6.5 in. x 2.25 in. at guard, approx. 3/16 thick at central spine, scalloped and engraved guard is 3/16 (german?) silver, first section of grip is also silver (?) for 2 in. the swelled section is ellipsoidal being about 1" thick sideways by 1 3/8 vertically. the grip wood is nicely grained, has some small apparent cracks that in the words of this forum 'aren't going anywhere'.

the scabbard, is a dark wood in two halves, held together with decorative nickle silver ends, and a corresponding end plate at the tip end held on with two peened siver nails. a sturdy decorative belt loop is pinned to the upper silver end by two peened silver nails, the center decoration on th loop is actually fluted into the metal, stiffening it considerably. the wood scabbard, where it is showing in the middle has it's side seams open (you can see light thru from one side to the other when blade is out. this is where the discoloration on the blade is in the bottom picture, i will clean that off in a bit, looks worse in the pics as i've wiped everything down with ballistol & it seems to have collected on the rusty stain, highlighting it. there is some evidence of pitting in the silver metal & some black oxidation in a couple of locations, does nickle silver oxidize black?

the blade is NOT symmetrically mounted, being pitched down by a couple of degrees, so can only fit the scabbard one way.

anyway, all in all appears to be a nice punal/gunung
 
That looks like a nice one. It would be interesting to see it etched, just in case it's pattern welded steel. May be much newer than that, but it looks at least 50 years old. I've been fooled before though.

Very nice.:thumbup: I've been looking for one like that. It's sweet!

Steve
 
OK Steve, what is pattern welded steel? Is it good or bad? How would it show up on an etch?
 
Pattern welding is like what is done with japanese Katanas. Many layered billets pounded together or folded. When you etch a pattern welded blade it shows the layer beneath the surface.

Gord
 
aproy1101 said:
OK Steve, what is pattern welded steel? Is it good or bad? How would it show up on an etch?
Click to expand...

Yeah, like Grob said. Sometimes called damascus steel. Combination of high carbon steel for edge holding, and lower carbon steel for flexibility, forge welded together.

Like dis. And it's a good thing.:) Beautiful, and generally speaking, older.

gunongoverall.jpg
 
OK. I knew it by damascus and not by pattern welded. This is why I love it here. Thanks guys.
 
'damascus' steel is what we generally, but in error, call laminated or pattern welded steel. the original crucibal steel used to produce the eastern watered steel blades referred to as damascus is 'wootz' and is NOT produced by laminating or pattern welding different alloys, it gets its grain structure when it is intitialy formed in the crucibal and is forged in one piece. it may also be laminated, twisted and forged into various patterns, and may have a harder edge welded on, but the basic patterned building block was a blob poured out of the crucabal. the ability to make wootz was lost over the last few centuries as westerners made alloy steels that were almost as good & were less trouble. affecionados, pining for the old days, have recently discovered how to make it again. it ain't cheap. wootz had a particular razor sharp and toothy edge to it that was especially suited to cutting flesh, it could be easily field sharpened and held a good useable edge for a long while.

when you read about richard the lion heart cutting a steel bar in half with his western sword to impress saladin, and saladin floating a silk scarf onto his swords edge which parted the silk in two, in reply - saladin's was wootz.

googling 'wootz' will produce a lot more info than my short condensation here.

if a blade description says 'wootz', be prepared for big bucks, pattern welded western 'damascus' is pretty, wootz is deadly.
 
big sloppy DROOL!!!!! nice, steve - pic of the whole thing pleese!

unfortuneatley, there is a difference between knowing what it is & owning it. so far, every time i've seen a wootz one it's been out of my price range, or if i find one on e-pray at a decent price 'cause it's been mis-described or the seller was not savvy, i still got outbid....i do have a certain persistance that will get me one within my budget one day.....
 
What a pretty little piece!!!!:thumbup: :cool: Congrats Kronck!!!!:thumbup: :D

Andy as Steve said, "Excellent explanation Kronck!"
But to further your education there are several different forms of pattern welded steel.
There is the hairpin type folded over on top of one another where thin steel bars were forged together to make a wider blade than was possible with the steel at hand.

Then there is the pattern welded steel and other metals more commonly done in the Malay Archipelago.
Steel, Meteorite iron and nickle, or just plain nickle along with cast iron and maybe some copper once in a while was all forged together for the Keris and other weapons. It is cleaned and patinated with a lime juice and arsenic to bring out what is called the *pamor* that makes these blades so absolutely beautiful.

I would so dearly love to have even a small knife made from Wootz but the ultimate would be to have a sword like Saladin had in the movie made from the real stuff!!!!:thumbup: :cool: :D
But a smallish knife would be a helluva lot more practical and useful.
I'd just like to see how it really performs for myself instead of reading about it.:thumbup: ;) :D
 
kronckew said:
big sloppy DROOL!!!!! nice, steve - pic of the whole thing pleese!

...
Click to expand...

Here it is. No longer mine. Went to a very nice forumite here in support of Ram's education. Bought it on Ebay for <$100. Just a pitted old tulwar. Showed it to Rsword from the Ethnographic forum who lives close to me. He pointed out what is called the cleft on the spine that often signifies a wootz blade. It was an awesome experience when I etched this, my first time and it was wootz! When the pattern appeared, I almost fell out. It wasn't in great shape, but it was wootz. I've only been that lucky one other time, when I bought a "midieval bayonet" and it was a Philippine Sundang.

Steve
Hyderabadtulwar800.jpg
 
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