You CAN do a decent job grinding with files

Chiro75

Chiro75

Joined
Feb 4, 1999
Messages
5,786
I've seen a lot better work than this, using nothing more than files for grinding (I used to get email from a German BFC member every few months and his knives were incredible, using files for everything!), but I thought I'd share a picture to show that you can, in fact, get decent grinds using files. This knife was made entirely with a 12" bastard file. COmbo of regular filing and draw filing. This is the knife in my avatar, but with a perspective that shows the grinds a bit better. So, if you've been thinking about making a knife using simple, basic hand tools, it is possible to do a pretty good job (but takes a lot of practice and a lot of time)!
wharncliffeblade.jpg
 
Looks good! My first blade only lacks drilling the holes for the loveless scale bolts and also the heat treating. It too was made with nothing but a "Magicut" 12" file, mill file, and hacksaw. It is a 1/4" thick by 12" long peice of 154CM. It took about 10 bimetal blades to get the blank profiled. I found that draw filing worked the best to get the bevels going good and even. I still don't know if they are thin enough to make a good blade, but they look good just eyeballing them. I figure after the heat treat I'll just sand them for a few days with course grit emery. Getting the scales to look decent is going to be the trick.
 
I love files. I often use them to fix the mistakes I make with my grinder.

The cool thing about files is that you are in complete control of every aspect of the cut. You control the pressure, the speed, and the angle at all times.
 
It is a 1/4" thick by 12" long peice of 154CM
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Wow! I use 1/8" 1084 and I thought that was a lot of work! Sheesh! Compared to grinding all that steel with a file, getting the scales to look good will be no problem at all. Any pictures?

The cool thing about files is that you are in complete control of every aspect of the cut.
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I agree. I suspect once I start working with a grinder that I'll still do some work with my files, especially for things like false edges and stuff that doesn't really take that much time to do, but helps to have improved control.
 
Wulf said:
I love files. I often use them to fix the mistakes I make with my grinder.

The cool thing about files is that you are in complete control of every aspect of the cut. You control the pressure, the speed, and the angle at all times.
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WHEW! I guess I'm not the only one that has done that! Hey, that knife looks really good, fella! I have a big thick stick tang fighter from expensive CPM 420V precision ground stock I need to finish buffing the scratches and get HTed. It wasn't my choice of steel for the knife, but that's what the guy has his mind set on. He wants a knife to just cut stuff with, not chop, at those mountain man get togethers. I did a lot of file work on the knife bevels and false edge after the hogging on my grinder. I am nervous when grinding some of that high $ steel and don't mind finishing with the files. If I had the spending money you fellas have, I wouldn't be worried about such a small thing as a few bucks.
 
I've got some pics of my blade at my home 'puter; I can e-mail 'em or try to post on this site. I'm saving money for my next batch of hacksaw blades, however. :D
 
Chiro, I never get tired of looking at that blade. It's a wicked nice piece of work.

I'd be interested in knowing some more about your techniques. How you keep the bevel flat instead of convex, etc.

-Allin
 
Chiro75 said:
I've seen a lot better work than this, using nothing more than files for grinding (I used to get email from a German BFC member every few months and his knives were incredible, using files for everything!), but I thought I'd share a picture to show that you can, in fact, get decent grinds using files. This knife was made entirely with a 12" bastard file. COmbo of regular filing and draw filing. This is the knife in my avatar, but with a perspective that shows the grinds a bit better. So, if you've been thinking about making a knife using simple, basic hand tools, it is possible to do a pretty good job (but takes a lot of practice and a lot of time)!
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I'm confused here. Did YOU make this knife, or your German friend? That point is rather vague, as is the question of finish.

If you did this, are you saying you used no sandpaper in it's completion/finish?
 
Chiro or someone else,

Can you post a how-to? I don't have the space for belt sanders in my apartment, but I do have room for a vise and several files. This would give me a great head start.

Thanks.
 
That is a great blade. I help out at a knife making weekend class. All the students come for 3 days and learn to forge a blade anneal it file it , heat treat it and complet the handle. The only drinding that is allowed is a bit of a rough stone grinder to remove any thisk fire scale.

Every body finishes at least one knife. One guy made 3 in the 3 day weekend.
They are not at the standard of precision as in your photo. I am just offering more proof that you don't need thousands of dollars of equipment to make a good knife. The guys that come allong range in skill we have had retired bank managers with no previous hand skills in fact about half of the students are retired older guys. So never too old to get the bug.

Thanks for sharing your knife image.
 
I'm saving money for my next batch of hacksaw blades, however.
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With steel of that size, maybe a metal cutting bandsaw would be cheaper!

How you keep the bevel flat instead of convex, etc.
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Typically I file "normally" for the majority of the work. In other words, I push the file from edge to spine, more or less. That leaves you with some degree of convexity in the edge. Because this knife was kind of angular, I used draw filing (to really thin the bevel down and flatten it. To draw file, I clamp the knife so it is pointing right at me, then I lay the file across the bevel, 90° to the edge, and both pull and push the file along the long axis of the blade. It's probably hell on my file, but it's seen worse! This is actually the first knife I did any draw filing on and it turned out just slightly convex instead of perfectly flat, but it's pretty darn close. I was inspired by my German buddy, who uses a file and everything is completely flat and perfect. An added bonus of draw filing is not only that you can thin out the convexity of the normal filing, but also it gets all your deep scratches going in one direction, so I found my finishing to be a LOT better once I started doing things this way. Otherwise I'd have these deep gouges that ran perpindicular to the blade that all the sanding in the world wouldn't get out.

Did YOU make this knife, or your German friend? If you did this, are you saying you used no sandpaper in it's completion/finish?
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Sorry for the confusion. I made this knife. It used new techniques, for me, like draw filing, inspired by thie German guy. The grinding was all done with files, then of course, I used sandpaper for finishing. It'd be pretty tough to get a finish like that with a file! Actually, I file, draw file, then I use a coarse, medium then fine Lansky stone with water, then wet sand with 220, 320 and I think I stopped at 400 for this one. Then clay coated, sanded wiith 220, 320 and 400 again, then etched. Then rubbed with steel wool and WD-40.

Can you post a how-to?
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I'd love to, but haven't gotten around to it. Now that I have a digital camera I could do it. The Jones Brothers have a great tutorial, but different from how I do it. I can't seem to find a link, but hopefully someone will post it. Hopefully that'll be something I can do as a project soon.
 
I make knives, chisels, gouges etc. all with files but I usually finish the knives with sandpaper for a better look. The woodworking ltools look fine with just a file finish.

One thing that surprises me is that some of you guys file stainless. I've never been able to anneal it soft enough. Which steels can be annealed butter-soft in ashes or vermiculite besides the straight carbon steels, 5160 and 52100?
 
The steel I've bought, two pieces (154 CM and S30V) from CPM and one ATS-34 chunk from TKS were purchased in the annealed condition. I would not imagine that it could be described as 'butter soft', though. More like 'saw-and-file-feverishly-for-8-sweaty-hours-to-get-the-blank-roughed-out' soft! :barf: But it is still fun to watch the blade slowly appear out of the stock. Usually beats whatever is on TV that nite.
 
I knew someone would find that link. Thanks! I used to have tutorials on my site for making a Kydex sheath, mosaic pins, a bunch of stuff. I'd like to do the sheath one over again, as well as one on making a knife with minimal tools, but it's a lot of work and by the time I think of it I've already started a project. Someday...
 
Chiro75 said:
The Jones Brothers have a great tutorial, but different from how I do it. I can't seem to find a link, but hopefully someone will post it.
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I believe you have us confused with another Jones. He goes by Jonesy and his name is Keith Jones. Phillip and I don't have any tutorials on the net.

There are so many Jones' out there that it is difficult telling who is who :D
 
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