Your Experiences with 440C and 8Cr13Mov?

440C holds a better edge and sharpens up to a nice razor edge just as easy, so it is a notch or two above 8cr. However, I’ve had knives in both steels and would take either one.
 
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I have 440C in a GEC knife and 8Cr13Mov in a CRKT. The 8Cr13Mov takes a finer edge faster but loses it really easily. The 440C has enough edge retention that I enjoy it for EDC with only occasional stropping.
 
I don’t know about “new” or imported 440C, but my 72 Buck 110 was 440C and I used it daily in Colorado out in the field surveying. I cut tree branches, sharpened laths, and opened boxes in all kinds of weather, especially snow. No rust ever.
 
Chinese steel seems inferior and I don’t trust their branding. Is D2 really anything like what Queen used? Is 440C actually 440A? Etc.
 
Doppler Bob said:
Chinese steel seems inferior and I don’t trust their branding. Is D2 really anything like what Queen used? Is 440C actually 440A? Etc.
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X2 I have some 1970’s gerber sportsmen model, 440c it’s a good steel
I am a spyderco fan and enjoy vg10 , zdp189, bd1n v-toku2
8cr13mov is very soft IMO , my 440c is much better then 8cr13mov
imo buck 420hc is ligh years better than 8cr13mov
 
I like 440c, some of the German 440c are really good stuff!

In terms of everyday use, I would say 440c and 8cr stains about the same. 440c has noticeable better edge retention in my experience, and better edge stability. My 8cr spyderco counter puppy likes to roll (pun not intended).

Toughness? Not sure, they're both okay, I dont use either for hard tasks. To me, 440c is similar to VG10 in terms of performance, good solid entry steels. 8cr is...barely adequate, and falls in line with AUS8 and 420HC.

My thoughts. Just get CRUWEAR and call it a day.
 
In the context of the original question, 440C is a bit like D2. Both steels earned their reputations based on more expensive knives with better heat treatmens. A lot of the budget knives in these steels coming out of China today will fall short of that reputation. However, both of these steels will still generally out-cut 8Cr13Mov. (Since 2017, there has been an explosion in Chinese D2. For good performance relative to price in Chinese D2, check out Petrified Fish.)

Unlike D2, 440C has decent corrosion resistance. It's definitely more stainless than 8Cr13Mov or AUS-8.

Since 2017, we've seen a proliferation of better budget stainless. For instance, Kizer's Tangram line uses Japanese Acuto 440. Various Chinese companies are importing Sandvik steels, leading to decent budget knives in 12C27 and 14C28N. Some Chinese companies have upped their native budget steel to 9Cr18Mov. That's already a solid step up from 8Cr13Mov but WE has perfected the heat treatment. That pushes the Civivi and Sencut knives in 9Cr18Mov up into the next performance tier. Artisan recently commissioned a powder-metallurgy version of 9Cr18Mov but so far, they haven't matched the edge retention of WE's 9Cr18Mov.
 
Chronovore said:
In the context of the original question, 440C is a bit like D2. Both steels earned their reputations based on more expensive knives with better heat treatmens. A lot of the budget knives in these steels coming out of China today will fall short of that reputation. However, both of these steels will still generally out-cut 8Cr13Mov. (Since 2017, there has been an explosion in Chinese D2. For good performance relative to price in Chinese D2, check out Petrified Fish.)

Unlike D2, 440C has decent corrosion resistance. It's definitely more stainless than 8Cr13Mov or AUS-8.

Since 2017, we've seen a proliferation of better budget stainless. For instance, Kizer's Tangram line uses Japanese Acuto 440. Various Chinese companies are importing Sandvik steels, leading to decent budget knives in 12C27 and 14C28N. Some Chinese companies have upped their native budget steel to 9Cr18Mov. That's already a solid step up from 8Cr13Mov but WE has perfected the heat treatment. That pushes the Civivi and Sencut knives in 9Cr18Mov up into the next performance tier. Artisan recently commissioned a powder-metallurgy version of 9Cr18Mov but so far, they haven't matched the edge retention of WE's 9Cr18Mov.
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The funny thing is 9cr18mov is basically an improved version of 440B, just as 7cr17mov is an improved version of 440A. If the geometry is the same and heat treatment is optimal, 440C should still see an improvement in edge retention over 9cr, and D2 should still be significantly better than either. That's why the actual steel used is so overstated in a lot of knives out there.

Also, the heat treatment can affect qualities of the steel as well. If given a sub-optimal heat treatment, steels like for example D2 or M390 can exhibit better toughness or corrosion resistance, but at the expense of edge retention. Some steels seem to be easier than others for nailing a good heat treatment as well, or maybe have a bigger window for getting it right.
 
I agree, and had similar experiences with my Buck knives from the 70’s. 440c from that period was very hard to initially sharpen, but a very good steel after that.
 
chalby said:
The funny thing is 9cr18mov is basically an improved version of 440B, just as 7cr17mov is an improved version of 440A. If the geometry is the same and heat treatment is optimal, 440C should still see an improvement in edge retention over 9cr, and D2 should still be significantly better than either. That's why the actual steel used is so overstated in a lot of knives out there.

Also, the heat treatment can affect qualities of the steel as well. If given a sub-optimal heat treatment, steels like for example D2 or M390 can exhibit better toughness or corrosion resistance, but at the expense of edge retention. Some steels seem to be easier than others for nailing a good heat treatment as well, or maybe have a bigger window for getting it right.
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That's the point. Ingredients give you the range of possible outcomes. The actual outcome is determined by heat treatment and edge geometry. Another thing to consider is how that gets affected by a factory grind. Lots of knives leave their respective factories with some degree of fatigue along the edge. So the true measure of a steel's edge retention won't be possible on the factory edge. It tends to emerge on subsequent sharpenings and that's how I'm assessing these various steels.

That said, 8Cr13Mov seems to have a fairly low maximum under normal use and sharpening conditions. Assuming that Spyderco has one of the best (and most expensive) representations of 8Cr13Mov, it still tends to fall short of the cheapest knives using 440C or D2. Meanwhile, the limitations in heat treatment on those modern budget knives in 440C and D2 are exposed by both average 9Cr18Mov and the very good 9Cr18Mov from WE. I think the issue there might be how sensitive or difficult a given steel is to mass heat treatment.
 
My 440C experience is from the 1970's. 440C was a "super steel" back then. The very first "super steel", if memory serves.
I remember it held an edge longer than 440A and 1095, and it was more difficult/took longer to sharpen than 440A/1095 with the then available sharpening stones.
I have no exprience with 8CR13MoV. My "440C equivelent" blades are 9CR18MoV.
 
440c performs close to vg10, although 440c has a coarser grain structure and maybe takes a little more work to sharpen. I prefer 440c over 8cr13mov for edge retention and toughness, but I’ve been given to understand 8cr has better rust resistance. I’ve never had trouble with either rusting, but I live in a painfully dry climate. 8cr is definitely easy to sharpen.
 
FRNFanboy said:
440c performs close to vg10, although 440c has a coarser grain structure and maybe takes a little more work to sharpen. I prefer 440c over 8cr13mov for edge retention and toughness, but I’ve been given to understand 8cr has better rust resistance. I’ve never had trouble with either rusting, but I live in a painfully dry climate. 8cr is definitely easy to sharpen.
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While the difference is relatively small, 440C is more stainless than 8Cr13Mov. For reference, here are some edited highlights from one of Larrin's charts on corrosion resistance:

Corrosion Resistance (Rating out of 10) - Steel

0.0 - 1095
4.5 - D2
6.4 - XHP
7.3 - 8Cr13Mov, AUS-8
7.5 - 440C
7.6 - S30V
7.8 - S35VN
8.0 - VG-10
8.1 - N690
8.8 - 14C28N
9.0 - BD1N, S110V
9.1 - M390
10.0 - H1, LC200N, Vanax
 
The biggest drawback to 440c is familiarity. It has been around forever, so we forget it’s a really decent inexpensive steel.
 
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