Your knife might, but can you really survive?

Elkchsr said:
I'm not in to bad of shape at 44...

One of my power hikes is a 20 mile round trip 5500 foot incline/decline highest point is 10,500 ft elevation cross country see if I can wear my Plott Hound out walk into a little portion of the Rockies... :)
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Sounds a lot like a hike I'd take a couple times a year in the Sierra mtns. At about the same age too. Couldn't do it today, but it is my goal to get into good enough shape to do it at least one more time.
 
Tonight I cleaned our very small 8' pool, ironed some work shirts, played Legos with my 2 year old, wrote an extensive email about the survival knife I'd like, then ate a Ring Ding. Damn! I almost did better tongiht! I hate this working for living crap. I walk to and from the subway and the stairwells, instead of taking the elevator.
 
BTW. Where the heck is the Wilderness Survival Forum? My thread was moved there and I can't find. I hoe it's not far ; )
 
Everyone here has raised excelent points. This thread brings up a very important topic that does not get alot of attention. I am 15 and I run for twenty minutes every day in addition to my usual outdoor outings. I think your physical ability to survive is just as important as your knowledge. You might be able to start a fire without matches but if you are too overweight to carry fire wood, tinder, brush then it is sort of a disadvantage. Also, overweight people are much more affected by a sudden decline in food intake. I am about 130 lbs and work hard to keep my body weight at an acceptable level for when the time comes that I may need to survive in the woods.
 
I also am an experienced backpacker and hiker. I have navigated through forests, deserts, and mountains as a professional archaeologist.
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My new personal hero :)

I've been thinking about getting into the field. Just out of active duty 18 months ago, so I'm kinda at a crossroads, over a profession I'd like to get into, or one where I can make a crap load of money.. lol.

Back on topic, yea, I suppose my knife and I stand an even chance of survival. I'm 5'11", just under 150lbs, 23 years old, and I can run a mile or 5, if I have to.
The worst part is I smoke, and I'm working on that. But otherwise in decent health.
 
A short answer, Yep.

I live in a hard country, and spend a LOT of time out there.
Doesn't mean that I can't learn anything new, but I am very confident of my ability to survive in my environment.

Put me in snow and ice, and I'd be stuffed in short order.

Know your limitations, both physical and mental, and practice your skills.
The army has a saying that is applicable:
"Train hard, fight easy"

A very good topic, I think a few of us took a step back and had a think.
 
I've hiked 10 miles on rocky Appalachian terrain. I'm not in terrific shape but I can endure long slogs in the heat or rain. I work out twice a week, I need more cardio. My ticker's in good shape but I need to build up my endurance for jogging, I'm only good for a half mile. I'm recovering from about 8 years of sedentary living, I've lost 130lbs in 18 months. Not looking to run any marathons but I would like to be able to jog 5 miles, and lose another 20 pounds or so. It's my goal for the next 12 months, and I plan on making it.
 
Interesting thread,

There is a BIG difference between being "in shape" and being "fit".

I have seen 19 yr old underweight computer game experts get winded after half a mile. On the reverse I have seen 60 yr olds with 30 extra lbs hike forever under load.

Just because you look in shape does not mean you are fit by any stretch.

Mother nature gave humans a spare fuel tank for lean times called body fat.

Throughout history it is a fact that people with an extra few lbs of fuel not only weathered the storm of survival situations better than their lean counter parts but did it in style.

Survival is a combination of several things, fitness, experience, IQ, attitude, supplies, health and plain ole luck. To think otherwise is foolish.

Skam
 
skammer said:
Interesting thread,

I have seen 19 yr old underweight computer game experts get winded after half a mile. On the reverse I have seen 60 yr olds with 30 extra lbs hike forever under load.

Skam
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I think we all see this. I know I see it all the time!

Will
 
A fue extra pounds just gives you some calories to work with but you have to take some in also to be able to use the ones you have stored up in your body fat,I think that most people would last a very short time if they do not have skills in the wilderness, with out a full set of skills then long term survival is not going to happen.What would you do if you lost your knife, can you make one from a flint like rock or make cordage what about a shelter that will keep you alive in real cold weather. Most people could not do it with out their gear but anyone can learn .
 
I won't say I have great fitness, but I'm not that unfit either.

I can run 5 k in about 22 minutes, which I don't think is that bad.

19 pullups. Been going to the gym for a bit, but I'm still skinny.

If anything, I need to gain a bit of weight. I'm 175 cm, 70 kilos at the moment. 80 - 85 would be ideal.

On computer gamers, I remember an article about the Norweigian armed forces saying they had to send some recruits back cos they were too soft. The military blamed too much gaming. Ironic isn't it ? These kids will play counter strike and be computer game commandos, but can't hack regular infantry training (not saying infantry training is easy, I hear it is a killer on the knees)
 
My opinion is that the main concern is to be healthy and have knowledge. I know many athletes that would face some problems as they lack basic knowledge, or are very strong but because of intensive training have some old wounds that could turn into big problems in the woods, too focused athletes seem to be more fragile as their training often wear them out (knee injuries, tendons).

That said in a wilderness perspective enphasis should be put on stamina rather then strength. I now a few very muscular guys that add some problems in mountain because before carrying their pack they had to carry their own weight. Additionally most athletes have a metabolism that require more energy, so they may feel a bit weak if food supplies are short. Being able to operate on low food supply is an asset. Look at some among the best survival experts: pygmies, while being well built they are far from beefy. That said body can use muscles as an energy supply (just as it do with fat tissues). Body fat supplies can also be useful, particularly in cold areas.

I'd say you need a tough built and enough strength to safely perform basic actions (building shelter, setting traps, walking around carrying your kit), all these activities done on minimal energy consumption (use dead wood when possible rather then falling, choose appropriate sizes, plan carefully your moves,... additionally this kind of thinking generally help avoiding wounds). Additionnal strength would generally be superfluous or involving un-necessary energy consumption.

About me, I'd say I'm on lower average. I've done quite a lot backpacking in the past, but I'm now lacking training, I'm trying to stay fit but being an office worker and living in a big city doesn't help much. So while acceptable I consider my fitness to be far from optimal.
 
I've seen what skammer is talking about. My son plays football, ice hockey, and lacrosse, but half way through a day of pheasant hunting he's draggin, though only a tad. He's perfect weight for his size, which is taller than dad thank you God. I don't think sports organizations condition the kids like they used to. Perhaps they fear the kids will lose interest. Honestly, it scares me sometimes when I see unfit kids running/skating, faces all red, etc.

Conversly, my brother is a good 35 pounds overweight, but ride a mountain bike frequently and is in pretty good Cardio condition. I'm a good 25 pounds overweight, don't excercise, but I can walk forever. In my early 20s, I was a mail man and it seems to stay with you.
 
This is indeed a good thread, because it forces you to take a step back and think about what you know as well as what you can do.

The bad news for everyone is this: none of us has everything we need or what we know to survive every situation.

The good news for everyone is this: I bet everyone who has posted or intently read this thread is already in a *slightly* better position to survive than the average person.
 
backwoodsman said:
What would you do if you lost your knife, can you make one from a flint like rock
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A fun skill, but depending on where you live, not very necessary. For instance, if you live in the continental US, it is MUCH harder to find a place where you wont find the makings of a metal knife. Sometimes it's considerably harder to find a suitable rock for knapping. I suspect it's that way in most of the more developed countries as well. Seems to me it would be far more useful, from a survival skill perspective, to learn how to improvise from some of the readily available manufactured products. Besides, with a very little bit of practice, you can make a cutting tool from the lid of a can much quicker than you could knap one.

As to my being able to survive, my chances aren't that good currently. I have some skills, I'm strong and I have the tools. On the down side, I'm carrying around too much extra weight and recovering from 3 herniated disks. Ask again in a year, assuming the world hasn't gone pop by then, and I will hopefully give a different answer.

Leo
 
Skammer is right...

I am a wildland fire fighter in the summer time and we have a lot of 18-25 year old alpha males..

We all know the type, figure their in good shape because they can do things others can't or they are top of their class in school when it comes to sports.

But when it comes to actually seeing what a person can do "All day" then that is what separates them from some of us older guys who have been doing this same sort of thing for years.

It's fun running their butts right into the dirt, especially when they start out calling us "Old Men" :D

At the end of the day, they are dragging their butts and we are still going strong.

They don't realize that it takes years to build up that sort of endurance.

The other side of the coin when it comes to Survival, and I would say that this is more important than just being in good shape.

It is what you know.

You can go into a real survival situation and make it an endurance test, or you can go into it as an adventur, an experience to be enjoyed and learned from.

Just like working out to keep in shape to get to where you can hold your own by the end of the day, so is the same with practicing survival stuff...

Reading a book or threads from these sites just isn't enough, you need to practice the skills you read about, or learn of, that is the only way to get good at it.

You don't build endurance going to the gym for an hour once a week, you can't create a very possitive experience in a bad situation with no or little practice. :)
 
I think physical shape is EXTREMELY important as far as survival and SHTF scenarii are concerned. That's why my resting heart beat is around 50... That's nothing too hard to achieve. Just get a cardio meter. Bring your heart rate up to 60-75% of your max heart rate (which is around 220 - your age) for at least half an hour, three times a week.

That can be done by walking at a fast pace at first... Then, as you get fitter and fitter, you'll have to walk uphill, jog, then run... The deal is to avoid starting too hard. That kind of exercise feels like work but it's not painful. There IS a difference.

The cardio-vascular system is a must have ;)

Cheers,

David
 
The physical aside (important as it is), there is also the mental aspect. There is a danger in this area of study to rely heavily on books and other sources of info and not get enough practical experience in the bush. When we do go to the bush we tend to only go when it's being friendly. Bad conditions can really mess with your head. Having actual bad weather experience in your area helps.

This last year I had an "almost" survival experience in Alaska. it was about 15 degrees with a steady 10mph wind, blowing snow. The steering wheel on the truck wouldn't unlock and we were about 10 miles (IIRC) from camp. I could have walked home in the dark but one of the guys with us could not. We had "just gone out to scout the area" and hadn't loaded the survival gear into the truck. Not a good idea. We finally got the truck started again but it was a quiet ride home thinking what we had been facing. Books don't tell you how you will react when it all really does fall apart.

(NOTE: that night a army tent, Alice pack of MRE's, sleeping bags, chainsaw, axe etc were loaded into the truck. I had my PSK items with me the night before and we were dressed for sitting in the cold. It would have eitehr been a long walk or a long night in the truck.)

None of us were in a panic but sudenly the physical condition and ages made a huge difference.

In the mental aspect I think older guys, if they have experience, have a slight advantage. Certain advantages come with having paid your dues. Just like knowing your gear you have to know how YOU react to situations and unfortunetly (?) our lives are pretty well taken care of most of the time and we don't get in trouble on a regular basis. Of course all the experience in he world won't help you if you are lugging 100 lbs of extra bear bait.

Imagine being in a group of people that includes a few very overweight folks with no wilderness experience. You might be able to handle the situation if it were just you but you just might have your parents and visiting aunt Sally along. Can you handle that as well? Mac
 
What a good thought provoking thread.. I agree with moine about the slow build up for cardio.. trying to come back after illness, i still weigh the same as pre diagnosis but man it has shifted type and location on me.. have tried lots of routines but only one I can keep up is walking, very slowly increasing loads and distances. Used to be a meter reader, lots of pushing snow up here, and like someone in an earlier thread ( a postie) said it sticks with you.. or else feels comfortable and familiar.
 
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