Your look at Survival shelters.

F

Fonly

Joined
Sep 24, 2006
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Hey guys,

I have a few questions for ya, especially for people who have used some of the products like the AMK heat sheats.

Right now I have this

But, as the weather is getting warmer here, I would like to move to something lighter, like the Heat sheet but still have the same premes. But I would also like to see what people thought about the Ermergency Bivy sac from MEC, are these worth the money?

I've allways used a tarp, and never used one of these bivys, Am I better off sticking with the Tarp style shelter?

For the price, I guess I could get both, and try them out. But to save a few bucks and some time, I thought I would ask first. Also, should I go the size up if I get the heat sheet? Im 6' 230lbs and I dont know what the sizes are for the heat sheet in terms of real life dimentions, same goes for the Bivy.
 
Fonly this is all I've used for shelter in the past year.... It's versatile in that it functions as rain gear but has grommets so it can be used as a shelter.

Picture007.jpg


Here's a pic of it with the rest of my minimalist gear:

Picture006.jpg
 
What kind of shelters have you set-up with it RR?

Im really not keen on the Bivy models, I would much rather prefer having a shelter over my head, and using Brush to aid in the shelter building.

Also, if you dont mind, whats in the stuff sack?
 
Those emergency blanket setups work ok and that is all.

The bivy's tend to be too fragile and trap moisture.

Like Riley above I prefer to use a tarp or a poncho as my shelter if going minimalist. Otherwise I take my jungle hammock.

The space blanket type products do ok in a pinch, but are mainly useful for emergency warming purposes when closely wrapped around the user.
 
wildmike said:
Those emergency blanket setups work ok and that is all.

The bivy's tend to be too fragile and trap moisture.

Like Riley above I prefer to use a tarp or a poncho as my shelter if going minimalist. Otherwise I take my jungle hammock.

The space blanket type products do ok in a pinch, but are mainly useful for emergency warming purposes when closely wrapped around the user.
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hmm, thats whats been kind sticking in the back of my head, I almost may as-well stay with the heavier sheet eh?
 
Fonly I've made Leanto and aframe shelters as well as several other kinds... I plan on doing a video this week on them If I get around to it... THe stuff sack is my sleeping bag (I know not real hardcore) but I get cranky if I don't sleep right
 
RescueRiley said:
Fonly I've made Leanto and aframe shelters as well as several other kinds... I plan on doing a video this week on them If I get around to it... THe stuff sack is my sleeping bag (I know not real hardcore) but I get cranky if I don't sleep right
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Wow, not very big, you wouldn't be able to send me in the Direction of one of those would you?

Another thing I was thinking of doing was Making a dedicated pack from a Maxpedition Proteus, which has a shelter, rope, and maybe a Bivy style sack. Or attach a small sleeping bag like yours to the bottom.


Im going to go out and try rigging up a few different styles with the shelter system I have.

Thanks to One stop knife shop for the picture, but something this size would work perfect for the style of shelter system I have in mind.
max-proteus-wc-worn.jpg
 
Its a Mountain hardware 0' degree down bag.... any down bad will compress sown really small (you just have to keep 'em in a dry bag because wet down doesn't insulate well I borrowed that jne from my boss (an ex maine guide) for the winter as my normal bag is only a 20 degree
 
I had a proteus It was not as big as I expected ... a devildog if you can find one would be perfect
 
Fonly - I did a review on the bivvy just after christmas.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=609913

I think the product is well worth $30. It will add 5 to 10 oC warmth to a light sleeping bag. I'm able to fit my bag inside the bivvy sac without too much problem. The bivvy is strong enough that it can be re-used fairly routinely if you are careful with it. You would need a ground cloth and the bivvy isn't all that water proof in terms of how it sets up, so you will also need a tarp as well.

I think the AMK bivvy sac is best suits the purpose for what it was made for, an emergency winter shelter when a day hiker is caught off guard. I think the bivvy would also be useful for extending a light weight summer sleeping bag into a spring/fall weather bag. Still, if I were really serious about that application, I'd spring for the MEC Penguin overbag (at $66 dollars), a nylon ground sheet and a si-nylon tarp.

You might also want to look into the Integral design microbivvy (about $150). This thing weighs only 650 g and is fully waterproof, except you will need a tiny tarp (or ponch) to protect your head and maybe a bug jacket or head net for the bugs.

I think those heavy weight, insulated emergency blankets are nice as a ground sheet in the winter. They weight far too much and are too bulky for what is needed in a ground cloth for summer though.
 
Fonley look into the Outdoor Research NightHaven Shelter which is a small, very packable shelter. It's not a poncho, or a tarp, but it's one of the best small shelters out there.
 
Is this a regular use item or just in case (survival)?

For just in case, I like the smaller AMK bivvy ~ they are much more durable than in the past. It is so small, there is almost no excuse not to carry. Couple that with a G.I. type poncho/tarp/bivvy and you have got a "system" that well help you sleep through the night. And when it comes down to it, if you can hydrate yourself and sleep, you got it made.

They make a version that is about twice the weight. It is more comfortable, particularly the interior, and it does come with a foot vent. They advertise it as an altenative for regular use in warm weather, but if I was going to carry something that large, I would opt for my snugpak or wool blanket depending on where, etc. http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com...me=Essentials&prodname=Thermo-Lite® 2.0 Bivvy

I got both, but only carry the smaller one stuffed in the bottom of my waterbottle holder which also carries an Integral Designs Poncho/Tarp/Bivvy...
http://www.integraldesigns.com/prod...D=949347&CFTOKEN=24012447&mainproducttypeid=1


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Awesome guys thank you, this was exactly what I was looking for.:thumbup:

Here are some shots I just went out and took. Obviously you would want more coverage, and more padding on the bottom, but I think you get the Idea. This is the Tarp/maylar blanket I have now, its fairly heavy duty and weights around 200g. Though its worked while I was back east, I also did alot of spring, fall and summer camping, so on its own in winter I wouldn't want it as an only shelter piece.

So, from what I gather, A good Bivy, tarp and ground cloth is going to be the way to go. Now I need something to carry it all in. Max sabercat eh RR? sounds good, I look into them more and find out what needs to be figured.

So, I got my #3 out and made some stakes.
P3090108.jpg


Here is how the sheet fits now, at the bottom of the lunada, below my FAK, 100' rope and glow sticks.
P3090109.jpg


I tied up an A frame first, the only thing I dont like about this is its not quite big enough for me, when set at a normal angle, it doesn't quite fit down the sides.
P3090110.jpg

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Of course there is the other way I used to use which was making a large cover, then filling in the sides with brush walls, it was a little more work, but over all had more room. The only thing I dont like is having so much open space with this, during bug season it can be a hassle. But with some bug nets, and long sleeves its doable.
P3090114.jpg


What I would like to set-up is a system to hold the contents( heavy tarp, bivy and maybe a sil sheet.

Thanks again for the help guys, and KGD your review was the catalyst for me wanting to go on a buying spree, thanks.:D
 
FOr what its worth gents I have used all 3 AMK products several times each so I can speak to the field experience with them.

The sheets are better than the old mylar ones and can be usefu as lightweight ground sheets. For anything else they are not very useful.

The Bivy bag is OK but where the velcro attaches to the unit it rips. Actually the whole dam thing tears quite easily. Mine is almost entirely covered in duct tape. Fonly at your size you will bust right through the thing. It is a decent bit of kit and comes in a two person size which would be a bit better but with the same durability. It is not a multinighter piece of gear.

That said AMK makes one other piece of gear not mentioned in this thread that is a better option IMO.

It combines the best of both style products. Itis a bivi made out of the new mylar type heatsheet material. It is decently durably fully waterproof and VERY small compact.

AMK Emergency Heatsheet Bivi
http://www.basegear.com/amk-heat-sheet-emergency-bivvy.html

When teaching courses I demonstrate this unit in natural shelters and under a sil nylon tarp, pair it with a regular heatsheet for the ground and its got you covered.

I use 2 myself for winter SAR ops paired with a -10c mummy bag. I put one bivi inside and one outside. The theory being the moisture of being inside a vapor barrier does not wet the bags insulation keeping it funtional and the outside is protected by the second bivi keeping outside elements away from the bag. All this and the reflective qualities of the material return heat. The bag insulation traps that heat. By doing this I have lower my sytems setup to -25+ and tested it in training and live SAR missions. ITs sweaty but works.
Pair this with a sil nylong tarp and my deep cold bag system compresses down to just a bit bigger than a 1 liter nalgene. I carry enough gear and winter access on snowshoes is hard enough without toting a 10lb bag.

My experience, yours may vary.

Skam
 
Fonley, you need to get a cheap brass grommet kit like Campmor sells for a few bucks, if you don't have one. Place a grommet at the centerline on the back and front of your sheet you have pitched in the photos. It will increase the sheet's length by letting you pull it taut. It will be better in rain, wind, snow deflecting and much quieter to use. Elevate the rear on a short stick and bring the sides down level to the ground. That should make it useful to you.

You need to understand 'vapor barriers/systems' BEFORE you trust your life to them. Otherwise you could end up hypothermic in a few hours and even in a worse situation. It's not an intuitive setup for most people. Try them under various controled conditions,ie camping in the backyard under various weather conditions, car camping, with other folks who can assist you if things go South.
 
1Tracker said:
You need to understand 'vapor barriers/systems' BEFORE you trust your life to them. Otherwise you could end up hypothermic in a few hours and even in a worse situation. It's not an intuitive setup for most people. Try them under various controled conditions,ie camping in the backyard under various weather conditions, car camping, with other folks who can assist you if things go South.
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Not sure I understand your point about risk. Vapor barriers need to be understood and tried agreed but it is not complicated and the benefits are huge. I just didnt have the time to explain it all here. It is well covered elsewhere.

Skam
 
Fonly said:
Thanks to One stop knife shop for the picture, but something this size would work perfect for the style of shelter system I have in mind.
max-proteus-wc-worn.jpg
Click to expand...

Trippy, I have that same pocket knife on that butt pack. Its made in taiwan and has "mustang" written on the tanto, chisel ground blade. Had it since mid-90's and recently found it. Recognized the clip and lock.
 
skammer said:
Thanks, been doing the career in the middle of nowhere thing for over a year. I peak in from time to time.

Skam
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Good stuff man.:thumbup:

Thanks for all the info, I needed a little more info on all these pieces.

Where do you work Skam?
Im Starting my Training for the canadian rangers in a few weeks, you got any tips for a beginner?:D

If your wondering, the Rangers specialize in Arctic areas, Ground search and rescue as well as repair missions to Norad stations in the arctic and Illeagel alien patrols in BC and surrounding areas.
But most of all, its SAR missions for far north emergencies, Plane crashes things like that.

Its going to be interesting non the less, I had wanted to join the forces, but due to Medical reason's I was offered a place in the Rangers.
 
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