Your thoughts on a maker reworking another makers blade. šŸ™„

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Reminds me of this.

How it started.
ecce-homo-before-342x454.jpg


How it's going.

ecce-homo-after-342x454.jpg
 
David Mary said:
I agree with you. However, it's not always entirely clear from photos exactly what you're getting, and getting it in hand may reveal desired changes, or sometimes preferences change.

I sold a knife to a gentleman which he decided to make a modification to the handle by grinding a divot into. He didn't ask me first. Where he put the divot could have been problematic on some of my knives to to a practice I have sometime shad of creating a hollow on the inside of the scales for weight reduction. When I saw the pic he sent me, I told him I wish he'd mentioned to me first that he wanted to do that, so I could have warned him of potential pitfalls (his grind was not sufficient to expose a hollow fortunately but that wasn't the point). He had every right to make the changes, but I still think prudence and courtesy would have been better exercised by reaching out to me first.

On more than one occasion I have been asked by knife owners to make modifications to their kitchen knives, which they received from the original maker with a recurve in the blade that prevented heel to tip cutting board contact. In one case the knife was made by a hobbyist and (IIRC) given to the customer as a gift, and in another case it was made (to my great surprise) by a maker who has been well known since before I was even doing this for a living. In neither case did I feel the need to reach out to the original maker. The knives were owned by the respective customers, who had every right to seek correction.

The customer in the second case also asked my advice on whether he should complain to the maker, or make a post in the GB&U. I said that the maker in question should be the one to fix the issue, and cover the cost of shipping, but the customer did not want to have the maker fix it. I can't remember if it was a once bitten, twice shy thing, or overseas shipping, or both, but it doesn't matter, that was his decision and he had the right to make it. I took the job, and insisted that he at least reach out to the maker, and let him know the issue with the blade, and that he has decided to have another maker regrind it. I also suggested that he do so amicably, and keep it from becoming a public situation, unless the maker's reply would somehow warrant a public response. To my knowledge the issue never went public, and since then I have seen many blades made by the maker in question posted on the forum, all of which which looked perfect.
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A close friend of mine had to fix a recurve in a puukko blade made by a Finnish master smith. I was shocked to hear about it.
 
Blues said:
I don't know enough about your work to know what makers designs you may or may not have made similar versions of.
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Fair enough. Hopefully none that cross the line. I find it interesting that we have on the one hand makers who will publish what could be their entire design catalogue to the public domain, like Dan Comeau or Bob Engnath, and then makers who vehemently protest that their designs are strictly copyrighted like Jay Fisher. I'd suspect that most makers have ideas that sit between these two extremes of "design possessiveness" for lack of a better work.
 
David Mary said:
Fair enough. Hopefully none that cross the line. I find it interesting that we have on the one hand makers who will publish what could be their entire design catalogue to the public domain, like Dan Comeau or Bob Engnath, and then makers who vehemently protest that their designs are strictly copyrighted like Jay Fisher. I'd suspect that most makers have ideas that sit between these two extremes of "design possessiveness" for lack of a better work.
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Personally, I can't even come up with anything good enough to be copied! Iz Turley basically told me (paraphrased due to my spotty memory) that the closest thing to an original design you can get is to cohesively mash together a bunch of stuff you think is cool. :p
 
I'll chime in my 2c worth..........

I have had several knives refinished or repaired by the non-original makers. In some instances the original makers had passed or retired, in others it was simply no longer logistically possible to return the knives to the original makers.

I personally have never permanently "modified" any of my custom knives. But I have modified several factory knives with regrinds or rescales to improve them.

It would always be my preference to return a custom knife to the original maker. Unfortunately that is not always possible or feasible, so sometimes other solutions need to be found.
 
David Mary David Mary

I see I was mentioned here....

Like I said earlier, I don't have a problem reworking another Makers knives if I'm fixing, or increasing performance and comfort, or general enjoyment of the knife.

I wouldn't grind on Historical pieces, I'd try to talk the owner out of modifying such pieces.
Sometimes we "don't" own things as much as we are caretakers.... It's a tough call. I see both sides.

As far as copying other makers designs?
I'm against it. I don't do it. I'm far too opinionated.
I know that.
I'm naturally a narcissist of sorts. My wife says I have delusions of grandeur.... Ha Ok.
-I'm making knives, because I don't like what's generally available. Mine is the Best. It's how I see things, and how I want my knives to be.

otherwise I would just buy them from others. That's how I feel. I know that sounds horrible, but it's true. I assume Most makers are like that. (I hope) They Should be. Why design and make something that we don't fully believe in.
I believe in My work.

... I wanted something different. I am all about handles. I have bigger palms. I don't like most knife handles, they are too small for me. They don't feel right. I design my knives for Me.

I must be doing something right, because many larger handed people are seeking out my work.

IMG_20260205_190436746.jpg
The knife you mentioned of mine was the third drawing down from the top. The top was the first of my design. It's my "Sideshow" handle pattern.
On a straighter slicer. That one is 10V.
I love it. A customer asked if I would modify the second one from the top. I like a little bit curve on my edge. I Don't like straight lines. The customer likes wharncliff blades. He collects them. I think he has some of yours too? This one is Cruwear, treated from a highly acclaimed maker. It's going to become his Favorite. I'll post more of it in the future.

As you can see that handle shape fits many blade styles. I even added a integrated guard. That's my newest version of my Anti-Hero design. I showed it to you some time ago.... earlier.
I think it's going to be the best edc dagger around! It holds in the hand perfectly.

I Love knives. I know I sometimes come across wrong and people don't like my honesty....I'm Not for everyone. That's Ok.
I hope people looking through my sub forum and seeking out my work, strongly see the differences that I bring.
Thanks.
 
^I like what you said. The thought occurred to me almost word for word- no maker makes because they are satisfied with what is available. We all have to think we are bringing into being things that are in some way superior to what is attainable to us, personally, in a commercial sense. We also all rely on there being enough people with different tastes and opinions to gravitate toward our work in order to keep us able to keep making.

Back to the op, I can't get lathered up by the idea that someone out there modified my knife. I can only represent who I am now and who I aim to be in the future, whatever part of me shedding off in the past is no longer in my hands. I don't make masterpieces, and I'm fairly sure I don't want to at this time. I might feel differently if I thought that what I was creating was real, bonafide Art. But, as it stands, I make some knives and I put my mark on them. I hope people use them, but beyond that it's not my concern. I make what I think will work as a knife, while providing a user experience which is unique to how I do what I do. I expect one day I will look back at a knife I made and be embarrassed- not because someone else corrupted my perfectly executed vision in some way, but because of the quality of my own work.

Someone brings me a knife any of you peeps made and asks me to change it? Not a moral dilemma for me, more a practical one. Beyond some sharpening or rebeveling or minor handle comfort tweaks for someone I want to do a favour for, why would I want to spend my time working on a knife that I'm not making?
 
Lorien said:
We all have to think we are bringing into being things that are in some way superior to what is attainable
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I just wanted to say that for me, the word is "preferable" rather than "superior". :)
 
I'll add my $.02 that no one asked for - I've had some of my knives modified after they went out. I've had some come back and ask me to do something and I've found out that others were changed without contacting me. I own my mark. I don't mind if someone has someone else works on my stuff. I also don't think it happens all that often and I do think it's incumbent on the owner to explain that something was done to it if they sell it or or otherwise distribute it.

Our knives go out into the world and a hundred things could happen between when we made it and today. The owner could change their taste. The owner could realize through use that something didn't work for them. Something could get damaged. The knife could change hands and the next person wants to use it differently. There's too many variables there for me to say no, you shouldn't work on my stuff.

Yes, someone could trash my work, but the owner could do that too. Maybe a knife went out with a mirror polish and then gets a few scratches on it. That could reflect poorly on me if someone thought I sent it out with those scratches, but what can I do?
Will I rework other makers' stuff for people? Nah. It's just not what I am into and I would stress out over it too much. Will I do it for myself? Sure, if there's a need. I'm rehandling a blade right now made by a prolific Japanese maker. It was split and needs redoing. Will I tell people I did it? Sure. But I don't think I need anyone's permission.

On the Japanese angle, I think a lot of us have a view of sole authorship but we don't see that in some areas of Japanese blades. Kitchen knife re-handles are pretty common and some makers sell bare blades. In the sword world, the final product is the result of many different artists even though you'll only see the name of the sword smith.
 
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I watched the original thread unfold on the ā€œhuntingā€ forum.

The original maker (Ingram, not Ingram) got hurt a few years ago. Cancelled all his orders. Makes very few knives anymore. What he wants to make at his own pace. He is a great guy. I have a dozen + of his knives, wish I had more.

The guy that re-handled the knife, who the OP is not familiar with, has been a very well respected member of the forum since 2004, OP since 2007. 5k and 7k posts between the 2 of them. Multiple page threads going showing the villains wares. Everybody loves his work. Heā€™s in his 80s, not out to harm anybody. I have a handful of his knives, and will keep buying from him.

The crime of the century was re-handling a knife that was very plain micarta and putting some highly figured wood on it. To me, just a hack, it looks awesome.

I wish I didnā€™t like a handful of my Ingrams. Iā€™d send them off to be re-handled just to post pictures.

Whatā€™s funny, the criminal reworker is giving props today for some new knives the OP posted. Heā€™s a genuine good guy.

Some of the posters on here seem like a bunch of Primadonnas that should take up golf or something, not playing with manly sharp things and power tools.
 
cheesy1 said:
Some of the posters on here seem like a bunch of Primadonnas that should take up golf or something, not playing with manly sharp things and power tools.
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I just thought they had their own perspectives based on their own life experience and values.
 
David Mary said:
I just thought they had their own perspectives based on their own life experience and values.
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Nope sounds like all their panties are bunched up!!!!!šŸ™„......

Possession is 9/10's of the law!!!! Wasn't that a thing??? Do what you will with your shite...šŸ˜‰
 
cheesy1 said:
I watched the original thread unfold on the ā€œhuntingā€ forum.

The original maker (Ingram, not Ingram) got hurt a few years ago. Cancelled all his orders. Makes very few knives anymore. What he wants to make at his own pace. He is a great guy. I have a dozen + of his knives, wish I had more.

The guy that re-handled the knife, who the OP is not familiar with, has been a very well respected member of the forum since 2004, OP since 2007. 5k and 7k posts between the 2 of them. Multiple page threads going showing the villains wares. Everybody loves his work. Heā€™s in his 80s, not out to harm anybody. I have a handful of his knives, and will keep buying from him.

The crime of the century was re-handling a knife that was very plain micarta and putting some highly figured wood on it. To me, just a hack, it looks awesome.

I wish I didnā€™t like a handful of my Ingrams. Iā€™d send them off to be re-handled just to post pictures.

Whatā€™s funny, the criminal reworker is giving props today for some new knives the OP posted. Heā€™s a genuine good guy.

Some of the posters on here seem like a bunch of Primadonnas that should take up golf or something, not playing with manly sharp things and power tools.
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Wowā€¦. Just a bit of hyperbole. FYI Iā€™ve spoken to the gentleman I responded to privately and offered my apology for upsetting him with my opinion. No criminals, no crime of the century. Certainly not a prima donnaā€¦.or Pre Madonna as some call it.
 
This has devolved into pure internet stupidity.

ETA: Hopefully Stacy will be along soon to put it out of our misery.
 
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