Yvsa

Ferrous Wheel said:
Interesting stuff, Yvsa. Guess it depends on if you prefer the theory that all humans came from one original human strain in the fertile crescent or the Subcontinent (or Africa), over the 'multiple originating points' theory.



Keith
Click to expand...
Keith I was going by Ben's convoluted thinking, not anything you said.
Just look at people!!!! Whites are still white, blacks are still black, ndns are still red.... All except in the case of mixed races. If we immigrated we would still look like the people from where we imigrated from IMO.:rolleyes:
 
Hey, that woul dmean that I would look sorta European...um...nevermind.
 
Yvsa said:
If we immigrated we would still look like the people from where we imigrated from
Click to expand...

In the migration theories, Indians migrated across the arctic land bridge from Northern Asia. Indians DO look like Asians, and recent DNA studies confirm Asian ancestery.
 
Ben Arown-Awile said:
In the migration theories, Indians migrated across the arctic land bridge from Northern Asia. Indians DO look like Asians, and recent DNA studies confirm Asian ancestery.
Click to expand...
Some ndns do look Asian I agree, but many do Not and Not every Tribe has been tested for DNA.
There's as much evidence pointing to the fact that we've always been here as there are facts that we haven't. As I said it is such thinking that brought about the Manifest Destiny and the whites claim that they have as much right to have done what they done to be here as we have. They have to find a salve to anoint their wounds with, are you the same as the rest that think that way Ben?:rolleyes:
Not all whites think that you know, or are you just being your usual obnoxious self again as well?
Not gonna argue with you about it.:p
 
Dpris?

Nope. NDNs are much more provocative than religion and politics, or evolution and creationism. Helps we have a cranky NDN moderator, I think. :p


Kis
 
Doesn't much matter how we got here, the thing to worry about is what to do with ourselves now that we are here.
Denis
 
Yvsa said:
it is such thinking that brought about the Manifest Destiny ....Not all whites think that you know, or are you just being your usual obnoxious self again as well?
Click to expand...

I doubt that whites who formulated the doctrine of Manifest Destiny had any idea that the American Natives originated in Asia. They just knew that they were in the way of the prevailing concepts of development and progress.

Yes, I admit to being my usual self. I will never be anything but my usual self. Whether my usual self is obnoxious is a judgement call. My cats love me, my daughter thinks I'm the world's best Dad, and even my wife tolerates me fairly well.

Maybe it's just Indians who don't like me. One of my ex-wives, a Black Cherokee from Ada, OK thought I was a real azzhole.
 
Ben Arown-Awile said:
They just knew that they were in the way of the prevailing concepts of development and progress.
Click to expand...

thats giving them a fair bit of intellectual credit... i cant help but feel that any such moral standard was put after the "i want that land. i aint gonna let no savage keep me from it" personalized perspective in order to make it sound better, and more easy to swallow to the gentler masses/rest of the world. i dont think that the individual settler was saying to himself "that tribe there, their standing in the way of our countries primary goal of developement and progress. i wont stand for it." the polititions of the time, maybe. but that plays into what i said in the first part of the paragraph...
 
I had a great response but accidently deleted it.....self checking karma at work....oh well
 
Whatever, Ben. Like I said b4--NDNs shoulda burnt the ships into the sea...

Do you really believe that progress is real, and not an illusion cast by the things around us? Are we not the same folk we were 10s of thou years ago? Are there not tribes all over the world who do just fine without "dev and prog" mucking up their land or resources? This 'price of progress' argument just irks me a bit.

Keith
 
Are there not tribes all over the world who do just fine without "dev and prog" mucking up their land or resources? This 'price of progress' argument just irks me a bit.

I agree.....

My first post self checked itself but I've got a prime example of modern do-gooders trying to help the poor backwoods tribes (very sarcastic tone).....

A bunch of anthrologist go to S America to study a couple of tribes (Yanamamo I belive) They are just suppose to observe & not cause outside influence. Just them being there is an outside INFLUENCE!! On one occasion they or the missionaries innoculate one tribe for a specific virus (smallpox). The innoculated tribe now knows they can't be infected so they go and completely destroy the neighboring tribe who hasn't received the shots.....trading a simple shotgun to the tribal shamen allowed him to kill the opposing tribes shamen.....yeah, we do a lot of good helping others progres alright
 
Ferrous?

Our species is something like "an aberration of evolution which has metastasized." Notable traits are murder and self-aggrandizement, oh, and rationalization. :(



The planet will survive us.

Kis



(edit to add more faults. I'll stop now.)
 
Yvsa, are you saying that the Red Indians originated here and are not related to other tribes of the same species? :confused:
 
dont know exactly what you were sayin on that last one madmark...

species of ndn's, or species - the human race? :confused:

i beleive he was just stating that there are several ndn tribes that look very different from anyone else on earth. it would seem that if they were planted there by a migrating foreign people, they would moreso resemble those people. and since they dont resemble anyone else on earth, it would seem that they didnt come from a common backround of any other group from another part of the world, possibly because they were in the american continental area to begin with.

at least thats what i got from what he said...
 
SethMurdoc said:
dont know exactly what you were sayin on that last one madmark...

species of ndn's, or species - the human race? :confused:

i beleive he was just stating that there are several ndn tribes that look very different from anyone else on earth. it would seem that if they were planted there by a migrating foreign people, they would moreso resemble those people. and since they dont resemble anyone else on earth, it would seem that they didnt come from a common backround of any other group from another part of the world, possibly because they were in the american continental area to begin with.

at least thats what i got from what he said...
Click to expand...
Seth got it. All tribes have a "creation thoery" so called by the non-ndn but held to be truth by the people these legends spring from. Reading some of them makes me think of the "creation theory" put forth in the Bible.

The migration theory is a popular one but is becoming rather old fashioned. There are now other migration theories that seem more likely. And I do believe that peoples have been migrating to Turtle Island for eons but that they weren't the first ones here. Like Columbus they were met and welcomed by the original ndns.
There's been a lot of inbreeding since.:rolleyes: :p
For centuries there have been stories of blue eyed blond haired Cherokee and lo and behold there are Runes carved on the Runestone in southeastern Oklahoma.
The Vikings were long range explorers that were also met by the original inhabitants that lived here.
DNA doesn't prove much except what one wants to believe when it goes back as far as we're talking about.
Still goes back to the Manifest Destiny AFAIC.
 
Whatever.

( I'm still staying off the Rez on Columbus day. ) ;)
 
I guess I didn't phrase that very well :footinmou , but I got more or less the answer I was looking for. :D You reckon there are people that are native to North America and no where else. May I ask what creation theory you subscribe to? Just curious. :confused: Also please elaborate on the migration theories you think are more likely. :)
 
MadMark said:
I guess I didn't phrase that very well :footinmou , but I got more or less the answer I was looking for. :D You reckon there are people that are native to North America and no where else. May I ask what creation theory you subscribe to? Just curious. :confused: Also please elaborate on the migration theories you think are more likely. :)
Click to expand...
Mark I subscribe to no definite creation theory as such. I am an evolutionist but evolution guided by a higher power if you want a label. According to all of the old stories we ndns have always been here and I truly believe that as some of us are unique like any other people common to an area.
I do agree that some people probably came over the land bridge but I also think some came by boat from the Far East, China and such.
I think that some Polynesians made it to the west coast by boat as well.
There are some Cherokee legends that some people came here from ancient Atlantis but that there were already people here that had been here since the beginning of man. The Atlanteans had intermarried with those people for a long, long, time.
It's all hard to say really but according to the stories of the ndn people we have always been here. It's a pretty common theme running through the old histories. I beleive 'em.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top