Zaan or 21?

I personally like the 21 over the zaan because of the pivot bushing system, having to use loctite, and I just like the simplicity of the sebbie. I will be purchasing my first sebenza in a couple months but I still plan on some time getting an umnum. Hope you find the one you like
 
As first knife, 21 looks better.
Umnumzaan is good choice as addition to 21.

Sebenza is "must have" anyway.
 
These are my thoughts on the matter and alot of it is purely subjective.

Umnumzaan advantages:
- Superior overall ergos
- Wider blade profile and thicker blade stock
- Thumb stop pin design is probably stronger than traditional stop pin design.
- Massive pivot
- Faster blade deployment
- Lock will never wear out

Sebenza 21 advantages:
- Pivot bushing
- Easier to open/close blade
- Big variety to choose from
- Easier maintenance
 
I am a new Sebenza owner and one of the things that sold me is the pivot bushing. I do not own a Zaan. But I can't stand using loc-tite either. It seems every time I take apart another knife, I can never get it to work just right - or after a couple of weeks find that I need to screw around with the pivot to get it "just right". Maybe I just have bad luck with loc-tite, but I do clean the screws and pivots. Anyway, the 21's pivot bushing is simple and marvelous. I don't have that feeling of, "Crap, I have to take this knife apart and I hope if works like it did when I am finished". The 21 just locks right up.
 
IMHO...

Both!

Sorry, but after buying a few 21's lately, I had to order a zaan too.

Next is another 21, then a Ti-Lock.

IMO buy them all, the only decision to make is the order in which you do so.

If you can't afford that, sell the ones you don't want, it's not like you will lose much if you take good care of it while deciding which to keep.

The few bucks you spend on the flip will give you peace of mind you made the right decision.

Edit: I'm on the list for a 25 as well.
 
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Wait for the 25 if you don't know what to buy, the 25 is more representative of the Zaan with a thicker blade and feels "meatier" like the Zaan but is still a Benza.
 
Umnumzaan,

Why? because the lock interface is a ceramic ball that meets the hardened blade tang instead of the weaker design of the heat treated lock face on the hardened tang(21).

There's a reason Chris has changed to the ceramic ball on the lock face on the new 25 (better design).
 
Get the 21. I handled both he umnum and the 21 side by side. Some of you will gimme heat for saying this but: the lock up on the sebbie is solid. on the zaan I was able to induce slight up and down movement on the two that I handled and they were nib from a reputable dealer. I guess they could have been lemons but I went with the seb because of that and its been in my pocket everyday for almost a year.
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All depends what you like. Sebenza is smoother iMO. I have owned a zaan and got rid of it cause it just wasn't the same as the sebenza IMO. The difference in blade thickness is not that big unless you really are hard on your knife. You can wait for the 25, they are sweet, I have a prototype, but the 21 is just smooth as can be with the bushing. You can get a Umnumzaan in the future, but the 21's will be harder to get and price will go up. Just look at the regulars and what they go for. Get a 21 and go for the zaan later if you really want it. It will still be available. Good luck and be prepared to become addicted to CRK.
 
johnnytoxin said:
Get the 21. I handled both he umnum and the 21 side by side. Some of you will gimme heat for saying this but: the lock up on the sebbie is solid. on the zaan I was able to induce slight up and down movement on the two that I handled and they were nib from a reputable dealer. I guess they could have been lemons but I went with the seb because of that and its been in my pocket everyday for almost a year.
Click to expand...

I could induce vertical movement in every single Sebenza I've handled. You can get vertical movement or lock rock in just about EVERY single framelock folder that has a lockup where the lockbar contacts the blade tang flush with a good amount of surface area. This includes all CRK, Hinderers, and the 3 customs I got to handle as well. If you want a lockup that lasts a lifetime or more than you have to accept the slight movement you may feel vertically. The only folder I've owned that had absolutely zero vertical play whatsoever were Strider SNGs. A truly unique lockup that is the most solid lockup you will ever feel until that tiny amount lockbar surface area that contacts the blade tang wears out within weeks and you start to get more and more slop in your lockup till you get the infamous Strider vertical play. Yeah I think I'll take the CRK/Hinderer lockup please.
 
Lovin my umnumzaan. Its more my style with the swedge and all and the design of the scales. I dont agree with others, its very smooth to me, lockup is rock solid vertically and horizontally. I love it much more than the 21. After handling both the umnum feels like a better user, not to say that the 21 wouldnt be a great user. It all comes down to personal preference.
 
I have several CRK's and I have to say my favorite is a large Micarta Insingo Sebenza. It's probably my favorite knife of all and my most sentimental knife, even thought it's not that old yet. It's just a love at first sight instant bond with that knife (have had it quite a while, but not years upon years). Having said that, I recently re-acquired an Umnum and I don't know what I was thinking before, because this might be my overall favorite CRK, especially if you're just comparing to a regular Sebenza 21 Large. The bushing in Sebenza's is great. You can make the knife smoother than anything else out there by slightly reducing the thickness of the washers and polishing them. Open the knife, take the pressure of the lock bar off, and the blade will drop instantly. It's that smooth and yet it feels solid. However, like most knives, if you torque it you can force some blade play. That's not actually blade play, in my opinion (neither is forcing up and down play), but whatever. Knives can only be so smooth and so solid at the same time. Again, having said that, the Umnumzaan is so far impossible to even force blade play even with a pivot tightness that still allows good smoothness. I think that's the reason CRK ditched the bushing system on the Um and the new Sebenza 25, because they're either going to be smooth as it gets but not completely solid or completely solid with a somewhat stiff blade. Most knives are no different, but with CRK's tolerances, they can get a completely solid knife that's still buttery smooth. I have to admit the ease of maintenance on the Sebs is impossible to beat, especially with the Umnumzaan, but if you have the special tool (which is cheap), the Umnum is still very easy to take down. Another cool thing about the Sebs is that - because the tolerances are so perfect - you can completely loosen the pivot screw and have just as little blade play as when it's completely torqued down (conversely, you can completely torque the pivot screw and it's still perfectly smooth. I thought that was another thing I'd miss with the Umnum's lack of bushing system. However, come to find that just the single standoff holding the scales together is enough to keep the blade from having play even when the pivot is loose. So the Umnum still gets a lot of benefit from the very tight tolerances and it's honestly just as smooth, if not smoother that an off-the-shelf Sebenza 21. You have to slightly "modify" the Seb to get it to be as smooth as anything out there, and if you do that, you make it that slightest bit less solid. Either way, they both have that completely rock solid feel when you open the knife that gives it that unmistakable "hydraulic" feel.

They're both perfect knives and I can't really pick a favorite or even begin to make an argument that one is actually "better" than the other. But I do think the Sebenza is the quintessential CRK and I was given the advice that the Sebenza should always be a person's first CRK. I'm glad I took that advice and got a Seb first, but I can recommend the Umnum first just as much. Especially if you were just planning on a standard Large Seb 21, I think the Umnum is just a bit "cooler" and more interesting until you completely succumb to CRK's and NEED a Seb to compliment your Um and are prepared to spend that extra cash for micarta or wood inlays, or the Insingo blade (which I love), or the Starbenza (which I also have and think is a really cool improvement over the normal 21), etc, etc. I love them both very much they're pretty similar in a lot of ways. They're both just the epitome of CRK (duh), but I'm having fun recently getting another Umnum (which happens to be the Star-tac version I've always wanted, which might be part of it) and discovering it again and I find myself preferring it in some ways. I guess I'll have to wait a while to find out whether that sticks, though.
 
I have an Umnum, a lge and small Sebbie. The small is too small for my hand. The large Seb is great and opens and closes easily one-handed. My Umnum has a thicker, stronger blade and still slices well. I prefer its blade design, thickness and pivot design. It still takes me two hands to close it...but...hey...
I have my Umnum and my large Sebbie right here by my side. I cannot induce any blade play in either one when I grab the handle and try to force the blade tip in any direction rt/lt/up/down. Can't do it on my small Sebbie either.
sonny
 
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A.Dragg said:
I have several CRK's and I have to say my favorite is a large Micarta Insingo Sebenza. It's probably my favorite knife of all and my most sentimental knife, even thought it's not that old yet. It's just a love at first sight instant bond with that knife (have had it quite a while, but not years upon years). Having said that, I recently re-acquired an Umnum and I don't know what I was thinking before, because this might be my overall favorite CRK, especially if you're just comparing to a regular Sebenza 21 Large. The bushing in Sebenza's is great. You can make the knife smoother than anything else out there by slightly reducing the thickness of the washers and polishing them. Open the knife, take the pressure of the lock bar off, and the blade will drop instantly. It's that smooth and yet it feels solid. However, like most knives, if you torque it you can force some blade play. That's not actually blade play, in my opinion (neither is forcing up and down play), but whatever. Knives can only be so smooth and so solid at the same time. Again, having said that, the Umnumzaan is so far impossible to even force blade play even with a pivot tightness that still allows good smoothness. I think that's the reason CRK ditched the bushing system on the Um and the new Sebenza 25, because they're either going to be smooth as it gets but not completely solid or completely solid with a somewhat stiff blade. Most knives are no different, but with CRK's tolerances, they can get a completely solid knife that's still buttery smooth. I have to admit the ease of maintenance on the Sebs is impossible to beat, especially with the Umnumzaan, but if you have the special tool (which is cheap), the Umnum is still very easy to take down. Another cool thing about the Sebs is that - because the tolerances are so perfect - you can completely loosen the pivot screw and have just as little blade play as when it's completely torqued down (conversely, you can completely torque the pivot screw and it's still perfectly smooth. I thought that was another thing I'd miss with the Umnum's lack of bushing system. However, come to find that just the single standoff holding the scales together is enough to keep the blade from having play even when the pivot is loose. So the Umnum still gets a lot of benefit from the very tight tolerances and it's honestly just as smooth, if not smoother that an off-the-shelf Sebenza 21. You have to slightly "modify" the Seb to get it to be as smooth as anything out there, and if you do that, you make it that slightest bit less solid. Either way, they both have that completely rock solid feel when you open the knife that gives it that unmistakable "hydraulic" feel.

They're both perfect knives and I can't really pick a favorite or even begin to make an argument that one is actually "better" than the other. But I do think the Sebenza is the quintessential CRK and I was given the advice that the Sebenza should always be a person's first CRK. I'm glad I took that advice and got a Seb first, but I can recommend the Umnum first just as much. Especially if you were just planning on a standard Large Seb 21, I think the Umnum is just a bit "cooler" and more interesting until you completely succumb to CRK's and NEED a Seb to compliment your Um and are prepared to spend that extra cash for micarta or wood inlays, or the Insingo blade (which I love), or the Starbenza (which I also have and think is a really cool improvement over the normal 21), etc, etc. I love them both very much they're pretty similar in a lot of ways. They're both just the epitome of CRK (duh), but I'm having fun recently getting another Umnum (which happens to be the Star-tac version I've always wanted, which might be part of it) and discovering it again and I find myself preferring it in some ways. I guess I'll have to wait a while to find out whether that sticks, though.
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Very interesting comments -- thanks.

How is the Star-Tac version different than the regular Zaan?
 
I'd probably go with the Sebbie, but that'1 because I prefer to EDC a smaller blade. I work in an office, and I don't need a massive 3.6 inch blade for anything that my 2.9 incher can do. Plus it's a lot lighter and I can leave it in my pocket and not even feel it until I want to use it.

It comes down to personal preference and what you want to use the knife for. If you're putting it to hard use, then i'd go with the Zaan over the Sebbie.
 
The umnumzaan feels light and small to.me after carrying a zt551 for a while lol. I guess it depends on what your used to carrying.
 
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