Zaan or 21?

flash900 said:
Very interesting comments -- thanks.

How is the Star-Tac version different than the regular Zaan?
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It just has a really cool different pattern milled into the scales instead of the cross-hatching that the normal one has. It has has a cool lanyard bead and a little Wilson Combat logo on the pocket clip. It's the same exact knives, it's just a special version that CRK makes specially for Wilson Combat for them to sell, and mostly the only difference is the fact that it has the cool Wilson Combat starburst pattern. I also have the equivalent Sebenza, the "Starbenza", which has a similar starburst pattern milled into the scales. They also make the jimping on the Sebenza a little more aggressive. This combined with the milling on the handles make the grip on the Sebenza a lot better and that's to make it a little more "tactical", although I wouldn't consider the Seb a tactical knife. The Umnumzaan is already closer to a tactical knife with the swedge, the more aggressive thumb-ramp and jimping and the better ergonomics and grippy scales, so the Star-tac version is mostly a looks thing. I think they both look awesome but I like the Star-tac that much more. Here's mine:

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kawr said:
I could induce vertical movement in every single Sebenza I've handled. You can get vertical movement or lock rock in just about EVERY single framelock folder that has a lockup where the lockbar contacts the blade tang flush with a good amount of surface area. This includes all CRK, Hinderers, and the 3 customs I got to handle as well. If you want a lockup that lasts a lifetime or more than you have to accept the slight movement you may feel vertically. The only folder I've owned that had absolutely zero vertical play whatsoever were Strider SNGs. A truly unique lockup that is the most solid lockup you will ever feel until that tiny amount lockbar surface area that contacts the blade tang wears out within weeks and you start to get more and more slop in your lockup till you get the infamous Strider vertical play. Yeah I think I'll take the CRK/Hinderer lockup please.
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I agree with you that you can force blade play on any folder if you try hard enough, but with those zaans I wasnt trying very hard. :) Perhaps they were out of spec and needed to be returned to CRK. Never the less Im glad I went with the seb so that if I try a zaan in the future and dont lke it, I have the seb to fall back on. Kinda like when I was a teenager and wanted to be a rock star. My parents told me I needed a back up plan. The seb is my back up plan :thumbup:
 
johnnytoxin said:
I agree with you that you can force blade play on any folder if you try hard enough, but with those zaans I wasnt trying very hard. :)
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I just tried really hard to force blade-play on both my lge Sebbie and my Umnumzaan, and both are rock-steady.
Sonnydaze
 
Sonnydaze said:
I just tried really hard to force blade-play on both my lge Sebbie and my Umnumzaan, and both are rock-steady.
Sonnydaze
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Well like I said above, perhaps the two umnums I handled were out of spec. Also just to clarify, we are talking about up and down movement not side to side. :)
 
johnnytoxin said:
I agree with you that you can force blade play on any folder if you try hard enough, but with those zaans I wasnt trying very hard. :) Perhaps they were out of spec and needed to be returned to CRK. Never the less Im glad I went with the seb so that if I try a zaan in the future and dont lke it, I have the seb to fall back on. Kinda like when I was a teenager and wanted to be a rock star. My parents told me I needed a back up plan. The seb is my back up plan :thumbup:
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Yeah that seems a bit strange. My Large Sebenza 21 and Umnumzaan feel exactly the same when I check for vertical play (I crank on the tip hard). Both feel very solid and both have just the tiniest bit of flex that is perfectly normal for maximum contact lockups like the CRKs and Hinderers I've handled. Anyway you cant go wrong with whatever you choose since they are both the epitome of manufactoring perfection. You got to hand pick your sebenza so its nice that you got the CRK that was perfect fit for you :thumbup:.
 
The 21 is a better looking blade IMO. Get them before they are gone!
 
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kawr said:
These are my thoughts on the matter and alot of it is purely subjective.

Umnumzaan advantages:
- Superior overall ergos
- Wider blade profile and thicker blade stock
- Thumb stop pin design is probably stronger than traditional stop pin design.
- Massive pivot
- Faster blade deployment
- Lock will never wear out

Sebenza 21 advantages:
- Pivot bushing
- Easier to open/close blade
- Big variety to choose from
- Easier maintenance
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Please elaborate on why the lock on the Zaan will never wear out
and why the maintenance is easier on the 21......Thanks.
 
I think he might be referring to the fact that there is a ceramic ball imbedded in the end of the lockbar.
 
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I much prefer the Sebenza myself, but as you can tell opinions will vary.
 
I think it depends on your needs. Both knives are great. I personally prefer the Umnum, but that's because it's stouter (Thicker blade, ceramic ball/lock interface, etc). But the 21 with its pivot bushing (Which is not on the new 25) is nice & makes taking apart your knife easy, though I haven't had any problem taking apart any of the Umnums I've had, either.
 
If I could only get one or the other, I'd get the Umnumzaan. I think it's a bit more capable if pushed into a defensive role. I tend to see the Umnum falling into the tactical folder category, where the Sebbie doesn't in my mind.
 
flash900 said:
Please elaborate on why the lock on the Zaan will never wear out
and why the maintenance is easier on the 21......Thanks.
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The umnumzaan uses a ceramic ball to lockup with the blade tang instead of having your titanium lockbar contacting the blade tang like most titanium framelocks do. It's like taking the steel inserts on the newer titanium framelocks one step further and better. The ceramic ball lockup on the umnumzaan is just about impervious to wear and will most likely last multiple lifetimes.

I find maintenance on the 21 easier because you can just unscrew the pivot and slide out the blade with the bushing/washers all together and relube/clean your sebby within minutes. Umnumzaan is ridiculously easy to do maintenance as well but it requires you to unscrew two screws and take down the entire knife. It takes like 3 minutes to clean my sebenza and around 5 minutes to clean my zaan.
 
Do you guys use your umnumzaans to even worry about the small amount of play in the blade? Mine is rock solid. All my ZTs and benchmades have been rock solid so i dont see why every crk wouldnt be. Either you guys are picky, or insane, or you got ripped off since ths brand is clearly supposed to be a few steps above.
 
simplespeed said:
Do you guys use your umnumzaans to even worry about the small amount of play in the blade? Mine is rock solid. All my ZTs and benchmades have been rock solid so i dont see why every crk wouldnt be. Either you guys are picky, or insane, or you got ripped off since ths brand is clearly supposed to be a few steps above.
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Yes, I'd say it's quite possible the kind of people (such as myself) who buy CRK's may indeed be a bit "picky". That's why you pay $400+ for the brand that gets the manufacturing quality award at Blade every year. I don't have any lock rock in any of my CRK's. I can, however force a little lock rock or more like flex out of my ZT's and my Benchmade-built Bradley Alias has by far the worst lock rock of any blade I own. Just sayin'. Oh, and yes, I use my Star-tac Umnumzaan, my Starbenza, and even my highly coveted Micarta Insingo Sebenza.
 
The thing is, i see a lot of people complaining about lock rock and dull blades and stuff. Every knife i own is a user so if my umnum has any play id be pretty pissed off. I mean, for the price people pay for these knives I feel like every knife should be hand checked for play, sharpness, etc before it goes in the box. Just like many many others, mine came brand new out of the box, and dull. Iv had it 6 days today and iv already had to try and sharpen it which didnt work out too well since it seemed like a 50 degree angle. So now iv reprofiled it at a 30 degree and put a microbevel on it. I scratched it up in the process cause i suck at sharpening and it sucks cause its $400 and new. It doesnt matter much cause its a user and would eventually get scratched, but it does suck. One think i look foreward to on a new knife is that fresh egde, but i didnt get it. I paid $400 for a knife i didnt even get to use properly until i worked on it. I mean, this is the only knife iv ever bought that wasnt sharp. Im not a CRK fanboy and this was a big deal for me. As much as i love this knife, i dont know if i would pay the price for one again. Im glad i did, cause i wanted the umnumzaan pretty bad but a dull blade is a big turn off towards any future purchase when i can go to academy and get a sharp knife for $30. People buy a CRK for other reasons tan cutting but being a knife, it still needs to cut.

I guess what my rant is saying is that i dont think its worth the money unless CR fixes some preoblems people are complaining about.
 
I've been debating this one for days and because I recently got a small Insingo I decided to get the umnum this time
 
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