ZDP-189 Not Impressed

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a2avery

Joined
Jun 8, 2015
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So I got a Spyderco Dragonfly in the ZDP for the holidays. I really like this knife as it's the perfect size for all those little everyday tasks we do. I got the ZDP-189 for it's reputation to hold that edge longer than than the VG-10/ and 8CR13MOV blades I've been using, but that has not been my experience. As expected, sharpening is a time consuming process and a bit of a pain. Enough that now that it's dull again I'm frustrated and don't really want to deal with it anymore.
Am I just crazy? I wish I had gotten the VG-10 version (in orange, of course).

ok, rant over. I feel better. thanks for listening.
 
After a relatively short time and really light use my ZDP-189 failed the paper slicing test that's all the rage on Youtube. I also noticed that there seemed to be chips along the edge. A couple of passes with a my kitchen steel took care of that. Not much later still unsatisfied with my paper slicing experiments I took 20 passes with a Lansky Ultra fine and we were right back to slicing paper... although frankly I don't do a lot of paper slicing. Even before sharpening it was cutting everything that I needed to cut just fine, so I feel you pain on the hype thing but I'm happy.
 
As far as production knives go, steels with more forgiving heat-treatment and ease of sharpening is always a safer bet. The steel is great when it's optimized for maximum performance, but HT isn't as tightly controlled as it would be with a custom knife. You may end up with a steel that's still difficult to sharpen, but doesn't have excellent edge retention.
 
I don't know if the steel can really be something to be impressed or unimpressed by. I have had knives in 1095 that I was not impressed with and knives in 1095 that blew me away. I think edge geometry, heat-treat protocol, and hardness factor into the equation as much as the steel composition.

In other words, if you tried a Rockstead in ZDP-189 you might have a different experience and find your rather binary position on this steel to be blurrier than originally surmised.
 
I am not loving the ZDP-189 in my Rockstead Higo either. It's very prone to microchipping. But the edge retention seems very good otherwise.
 
asdf12345 said:
As far as production knives go, steels with more forgiving heat-treatment and ease of sharpening is always a safer bet. The steel is great when it's optimized for maximum performance, but HT isn't as tightly controlled as it would be with a custom knife. You may end up with a steel that's still difficult to sharpen, but doesn't have excellent edge retention.
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Good perspective, I agree completely.
 
What are you cutting?


The edge will last LONGER than the generic steels.
 
My William Henry knives in ZDP-189 have exhibited very good edge retention. I am impressed.
 
Sorry you had a bad experience with the ZDP; it is one of my favorites!

I do not have any from Spyderco, but I have been very pleased with other higher end steels from Sal and company.

I have a few from other manufacturers and I really like the ZDP - it is stain resistant, does not take a patina cutting apples and cardboard anyway.

I also find that, while it does take some extra effort to get it "sharp enough" to my taste, it stays that way for a good amount of cutting.

I use diamond stones for my sharpening, and I do go to a coarse stone and work down if the knife does not have a good edge, although I would not profess to be an expert sharpener by any means....

Some steels do better than others in terms of my ability to get a great edge. Maybe I should say that I do better with certain steels.

I guess it is all part of the fun for me.

best

mqqn
 
That's interesting... I have a ZDP Delica and have had two ZDP Endura's; all have been fantastic and edge retention is far greater that VG 10 in use in my experience...

Could be the edge angle?

I'd love a dragonfly in ZDP; I had two previously in VG10 but got rid of em LOL. :thumbup::foot:
 
Am I just crazy?
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Yes.

Ha, ha, ha . . . You know I'm fooling around.

Nah I love mine.
Actually it is quite easy to sharpen if you get the good stones : Shapton and go coarse enough on the first couple passes (some are liking the diamond plates for those coarse passes. I haven't found the need yet.

The Edge Pro is available with Shapton stones if you search it out. PIECE O' CAKE.

My little Dragon. ;) :thumbup:
Check him out hanging out with his homies. In some ways my favorite knife.

Last night I was trying my little Buck 505 on the Shaptons and the steel in it is so soft and had that stainless steel thing where it takes for ever to get rid of the final super light wire edge that is so thin it is like see through foil. I was missing my ZDP-189 which is much much harder and doesn't have that problem.

 
Wowbagger said:
Yes.

Ha, ha, ha . . . You know I'm fooling around.

Nah I love mine.
Actually it is quite easy to sharpen if you get the good stones : Shapton and go coarse enough on the first couple passes (some are liking the diamond plates for those coarse passes. I haven't found the need yet.
Click to expand...

Well I know I'm crazy, at least it's not over this.
Thanks for all the info about this. I'll run the Dragonfly through the sharpening agin this weekend and get her back in shape. It really is a great little knife.
 
I have had several knives in ZDP from Spyderco & William Henry, and was never impressed because it was difficult to sharpen and didn't offer that much in additional edge retention. All of my current Spydercos have vg10 steel, which works well and is easy to keep sharp!
 
I get what your saying. I have been impress and unimpressed with higher end steels. As another poster pointed out there are variables that contribute to edge retention and performance. Heat treat, grind, bevel angle ect.
 
I agree completely. I've had a ZDP-189 Dragonfly and Delica. They were a nightmare to sharpen. I have never been able to get ZDP as sharp as vg-10, s30v, or even M390. In fact, M390 holds an edge much longer and is considerably easier to sharpen for me.
 
I have to disagree, sorry :-). I am a dragonfly addict and have several vg10 as well as zdp. The vg10 dulls so quickly that i don't even bother with them. The zdp lasts much longer and with a minute or two on a paper wheel is razor sharp. This is the knife I carry every day now because it is such a good edge holder. How are you sharpening it?
 
I, too, got a ZDP Dragonfly for Xmas. I previously had a Delica in the same steel and was quite happy with it; it held an edge for quite some time and didn't require much time on the Sharpmaker to bring it back up to paper-cutting sharp. (I still own the Delica, and I'd say it's been backbenched, but the truth is that it's been out for cutting comparisons because of this forum.)

So far, my Dragonfly hasn't required any sharpening, even after cutting hard straps and cardboard. To be honest, though, it's mostly cut through food, and I can tell you it excels at that. Maybe your use case requires a softer, more wear-resistant steel, but my experience with the Delica doesn't bear out the edge retention and sharpening problems you describe.
 
Heckeng said:
How are you sharpening it?
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I'm using a Lansky diamond kit. I've been on their system for years and get good results. Speaking of which, I did sharpen my Dragonfly up again last night and once again she is razor sharp. I'll see how long it lasts this time.
What am I cutting to make it go so dull? I'm not going crazy with this thing. I have an Endura on me daily for the harder use/ work related tasks. My Dragonfly is mostly used for "daddy tasks". Cutting fruit/food, packages, arts and crafts, opening envelopes. Stuff like that. Hardly a strain on any knife.
 
I have a Delica in ZDP-189 and have quite enjoyed it. It takes a while to sharpen but it's not difficult to sharpen. Responds very well to taking a highly polished edge, at least in my experience. Haven't used the knife in a few years now (I mostly carry a Mora Pro Flex these days for pretty much everything) but I never had a spot of trouble out of it when it was seeing frequent use. My only complaint was that mine was the original blue-handled sprint run that had a saber grind on it instead of FFG, so it hindered slicing tasks of any real depth, but that was a geometry issue, not one of the steel.
 
a2avery said:
So I got a Spyderco Dragonfly in the ZDP for the holidays. I really like this knife as it's the perfect size for all those little everyday tasks we do. I got the ZDP-189 for it's reputation to hold that edge longer than than the VG-10/ and 8CR13MOV blades I've been using, but that has not been my experience. As expected, sharpening is a time consuming process and a bit of a pain. Enough that now that it's dull again I'm frustrated and don't really want to deal with it anymore.
Am I just crazy?
Click to expand...
just because an edge lost it's ability to push cut paper doesn't mean it isn't sharp. "Dull" is subjective, but I'm willing to bet that edge works great for actual cutting tasks (other than cleanly slicing open an envelope that you could otherwise just use your thumb to open). So I'd say don't stress over it, use the thing.
 
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