ZDP-189... yeh or nah?

[Reeek]

I'm not big on ZDP-189. I've had some perform well, some chip, some appeared to not be heat treated properly and didn't hold the edge like other ZDP knives I had. Maybe it's difficult to get the right HT out of it. I don't know but I'm pretty much done with it personally.

 

[Joshua J.]

My favourite ZDP knife is a full SE Endura 4, and I actually tested that one on cardboard when I got it, it did a few hundred feet of cardboard before it went "dull", which doesn't mean it wouldn't cut, just that it took more effort than I would put up with.

 

[christopherm903]

The 2 ZDP blades from Spyderco I have are Fricken Razors! (cally 3, Lum Chinese folder) But my Kershaw ZDP is not very sharp, and no matter how much time I spend with it on my sharpmaker, I can not get it anywhere near the Spydies! I really think it all lies in the heat treat...
Thanks, Chris

 

[singularity35]

The 2 ZDP blades from Spyderco I have are Fricken Razors! (cally 3, Lum Chinese folder) But my Kershaw ZDP is not very sharp, and no matter how much time I spend with it on my sharpmaker, I can not get it anywhere near the Spydies! I really think it all lies in the heat treat...
Thanks, Chris

I'm more inclined to think it's the bevel angle. You are probably just not hitting the edge of your Kershaw with your SM.

BTW, I have a ZDP Endura that I took down to 22 degrees and micro'ed at 30 degrees. I also just finish with 400 grit moldmaster SiC stones. Just knock off the burr with a few strokes on the strop and it's a freakin' aggressive cutter.

 

[Ben Dover]

I would tend to believe that your problem is the Sharpmaker. The SM is a fine tool for touching up a knife that is already sharp. It is an atrocious device for re-bevelling, or attempting to sharpen a very dull knife, or a knife with different bevel angles from the 15 and 20 degrees of the SM.

 

[THG]

Something definitely wasn't right with that. ZDP holds it's edge like crazy, actually beating S90V in my VERY unscientific tests. (video posted above)

And ZDP actually does form a burr, quite readily. Either your blades were off on the HT (soft) or you had a burr. Pretty much the only explanation there is for that kind of performance.

Something was definitely wrong! In my homegrown cardboard cutting and general kitchen duty tests it done extremely well. Even out performing my M4 Gayle in overall performance.

I don't know what the deal was, but I'm sure I didn't have a burr. Both knives were sharpened on an aligner with a slight microbevel to remove any burr. They took a very, very fine edge, but they absolutely could not hold it.

I also found it hard to believe that this would happen in 2 knives in a row. Maybe the ZDP-189 of back then isn't as good as it is now? I think both knives were from ~2006.

 

[KLJTech]

I've been carrying an A.G. Russell Acies everyday for several months now and all my concerns about how ZDP-189 would hold up have been answered and I'm very pleased. I knew that it was suppose to hold an edge better than S30V but I was concerned about it possibly being brittle but I've seen nothing but positives from this steel so far. You should certainly give ZDP-189 a try!
Good luck!

 

[Ben Dover]

IME, ZDP holds an edge quite well without a microbevel.

I believe than an Edge Pro or a WEPS will solve your problems. Or if you prefer freehand sharpening, accumulate a set of Shaptons.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Hawk,

As your interest in knives grows, you will be interested in peeling back the onion of information. Knife steel is one of those areas that carries much depth. Each steel has it's own personality. All good, just different. Sooner or later, you will want to try a ZDP blade.

In fact, I'm carrying a ZDP D'fly2 today.

sal

 

[vwb563]

Hi Hawk,

As your interest in knives grows, you will be interested in peeling back the onion of information. Knife steel is one of those areas that carries much depth. Each steel has it's own personality. All good, just different. Sooner or later, you will want to try a ZDP blade.

In fact, I'm carrying a ZDP D'fly2 today.

sal

Hi Sal! I may be wrong but you seem to perfer ZDP189 as your carry blade steel more than anything else. May I ask what are your reasons for this? I really like ZDP myself for its superior edge holding and was just wondering what your reasons are. Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[X-fan]

I have the Mule, and the Michael Walker in ZDP.

While I consider it a superb steel, and far superior to S30V, it is not, IMHO, the equal of S90V, CPM M-4, M390, or CTS 20CP.

OTOH, my experiences are limited to two knives.

Interesting.
I have 3-ZDP and 2-S-90v Spyderco's and find just the opposite.
Softer steels can get away with a wire edge, ZDP-189 will not hold a wire edge at all.
Seconds of cutting cardboard will render a wire edge ZDP blade dull.

Contrary to what others have said I do not find it chips overly easy.
I have one small chip on one knife that I got from accidentally banging it (hard!) on a glass corner...Will be a pig to get out.

No experience with M-4, cts 20, or 390

 

[Ben Dover]

Interesting.
I have 3-ZDP and 2-S-90v Spyderco's and find just the opposite.
Softer steels can get away with a wire edge, ZDP-189 will not hold a wire edge at all.
Seconds of cutting cardboard will render a wire edge ZDP blade dull.

Contrary to what others have said I do not find it chips overly easy.
I have one small chip on one knife that I got from accidentally banging it (hard!) on a glass corner...Will be a pig to get out.

No experience with M-4, cts 20, or 390

While S90V is not normally hardened to as high of a level as ZDP, S90V has far greater abrasion resistance even at lower hardness levels due to it's chemistrty, and is somewhat less brittle. CTS 20 CP is basically a 2nd generation PM steel (fron Carpenter) quite similar to S90V, and M390 is third generation PM steel (from Bohler-Uddeholm) again very similar to S90V. I only have one blade made of M390, presently, but it appears a bit easier to sharpen, tougher, and at least equally abrasion resistant to S90V. It may be my imagination, but M390 also appears to be finer grained than the first or second generation PM steels.

Mr. Glesser is far more knowledge in this area than I, so perhaps he could provide a more definitive answer

CPM M-4 is actually a high speed tool steel. It has less abrasion resistance than ZDP or S90V, but is considerably tougher and far easier to sharpen.

It is my carefully considered opinion that Bohler-Uddeholm K390 will be the next "uber" steel, since it appears to be an order of magnitude aqbopve the aforewmentioned steels. I am extremely eager to acquire and test a blade of k390!

 

[jimnolimit]

CPM M-4 is actually a high speed tool steel. It has less abrasion resistance than ZDP or S90V, but is considerably tougher and far easier to sharpen.

my take on it is this: CPM-M4's wear/abrasion resistance is between ZDP and S90V.

 

[X-fan]

While S90V is not normally hardened to as high of a level as ZDP, S90V has far greater abrasion resistance even at lower hardness levels due to it's chemistrty, and is somewhat less brittle.

I know that is what the book says, but my case (my knives) that does not hold true

Better run zdp or lessor s-90?
No idea.

 

[pwet]

my take on it is this: CPM-M4's wear/abrasion resistance is between ZDP and S90V.

agreed.

ZDP is not comparable with most of the CPM steels as it's not a "vanadium steel" it has very high carbon and chromium but not much other alloys. no strong carbide formers like vanadium or tungsten. so it behaves more like a plain stainless on steroid than a high alloy steel. it makes a great difference to me.

 

[Handwrecker]

It may be my imagination, but M390 also appears to be finer grained than the first or second generation PM steels.

There was a post on here from a Carpenter rep (where he didn't want to step on any toes, and was very polite) where he explained the difference between 2nd and 3rd gen. Interesting stuff. I'll see if my search-fu can dig it up.

ETA: My mistake, it was from the Spyderco forum. But I feel as if it's pertinent here. Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules with this post.

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showpost.php?p=681034&postcount=49

 

[phillipsted]

I have five or six ZDP blades plus a mule. I love the stuff. It holds its edge forever in my usage - and I keep them generally sharpened at 15 degrees (30 inclusive) with no secondary bevel. I get some micro-chipping, but no big hunks have ever chipped out of my edges.

Granted, it takes some time to set that first bevel the first time its sharpened - but the touch ups are a breeze.

TedP

 

[jimnolimit]

Seconds of cutting cardboard will render a wire edge ZDP blade dull.

Contrary to what others have said I do not find it chips overly easy.

Have you try using ZDP without a wire edge?

Through both use and some testing, I have also found that ZDP isn't chippy.

 

[arty]

I used a Michel Walker in ZDP189 when moving a few months ago. It basically did alot of rope cutting. It held up much better than another knife in 154CM (BM). The ZDP needed to be stropped, if that. The 154CM blade needed some time on the stones. The 154 would still cut, but was not as sharp as I like my blades.

 

[X-fan]

Have you try using ZDP without a wire edge?

Through both use and some testing, I have also found that ZDP isn't chippy.

After I did a quick tune up I discovered I had accidentally wire edged my ZDP CF stretch.
Out of curiosity I cut some cardboard.

I fixed it right afterward.