ZT 0392 with a Rolling Detent?!

Charr

Charr

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So I got a ZT 0392BWBRZ today from a trade, and when I was playing with the knife, I noticed that something was weird about the way that the detent ball contacted the blade when closing. I can't really put the sensation into words well, but when I was looking at the detent ball more closely, I noticed that it has a weird housing, unlike what I normally see on standard detent balls.

So I took a closer look under light, and played with it a little with a fine-tipped probe, and its actually a rolling detent ball!

If this is something that was widely known, then I just missed it, but I didn't hear anything about the 0392 having a rolling detent. I also feel like this might be a little bit of ZT being underhanded, given that Jake Hoback openly offers the rolling detent to be used by anyone, but does ask that they credit him, if they either use his hardware or his idea, which ZT has definitely not done if they are indeed using a rolling detent.

Thought it was worth mentioning.
 
99% sure its not a HRD unit, I've taken a few 0392s apart. The lock bar insert goes around the detent ball, which gives the appearance of the detent having its own housing, but its not an adjustable unit. It should be smooth as glass, but not a rolling detent...
 
Yeah, no.

The detent ball is pressed into the lockbar. The puck goes around the detent ball so there is a little collar arpundnthe detent but it's Ti from the lockbar not a separate piece like on the HRD. The HRD is also adjustable since its in its own housing separate from the lockbar.

I would honestly be surprised if KAI knew who Hoback was. I say that as a big fan of Jake's.
 
Rival1314 said:
99% sure its not a HRD unit, I've taken a few 0392s apart. The lock bar insert goes around the detent ball, which gives the appearance of the detent having its own housing, but its not an adjustable unit. It should be smooth as glass, but not a rolling detent...
Click to expand...

I agree it's definitely not a true HRD unit, the same way that Jake makes them, but the detent definitely has free movement in the steel housing it sits it. I have been messing with mine for w little while after I marked a point on the detent ball with a little sharpy, and the ball is definitely rolling, though admitadely not as much as an HRD does.

It seems like ZT tried to make a similar design to the HRD, though without it being adjustable and with it mounted into the steel insert instead of the lockbar itself.

I wasn't saying it was an exact replica of the HRD, but more that it was a detent ball that was seperately suspended and has independent movement. It doesn't seem as good as the HRD, but likely uses the same basic concept. That was more of what I was saying.
 
Scurvy092 said:
Yeah, no.

The detent ball is pressed into the lockbar. The puck goes around the detent ball so there is a little collar arpundnthe detent but it's Ti from the lockbar not a separate piece like on the HRD. The HRD is also adjustable since its in its own housing separate from the lockbar.

I would honestly be surprised if KAI knew who Hoback was. I say that as a big fan of Jake's.
Click to expand...

I'm honestly sure KAI know exactly who Jake Hoback is, since it's their job to know most of the major trends in the market, and he has been influential in setting some of them.

I have messed with the detent ball quite a lot here now, and I am sure that it does roll within its housing in the knife. Whether that was intentional, or perhaps an unintended side effect of their design for the steel insert, I don't know, but it definitely does roll, and if I could get a picture/photo of it I would, but it's pretty much impossible with what I have.

I would hazard a guess that this was like our either an accidental thing, and it's not supposed to happen, or that ZT made it intentionally, either with or without knowledge of the existence of the HRD prior to this.

And again, I never tried to say that they used the exact HRD, just that this was similar in how it acted. I'm not stupid enough to think that there's an HRD in the 0392. That's obviously not the case. I was only saying that it DOES seem to have a detent ball that rolls in place.
 
Charr said:
I agree it's definitely not a true HRD unit, the same way that Jake makes them, but the detent definitely has free movement in the steel housing it sits it. I have been messing with mine for w little while after I marked a point on the detent ball with a little sharpy, and the ball is definitely rolling, though admitadely not as much as an HRD does.

It seems like ZT tried to make a similar design to the HRD, though without it being adjustable and with it mounted into the steel insert instead of the lockbar itself.

I wasn't saying it was an exact replica of the HRD, but more that it was a detent ball that was seperately suspended and has independent movement. It doesn't seem as good as the HRD, but likely uses the same basic concept. That was more of what I was saying.
Click to expand...

Nothing to be alarmed about IMO: SanRenMu has been using these free-moving ball bearing detents for all of their 7xxx series non-locking folders. Sure, there's some horror involved when entertaining the thought that the ball might slip out of its recess, but it's almost impossible to happen under normal usage as long as the liners, scales and blade are tightly screwed together. It's a concern only when dissembling the knife, but with proper care in doing so I doubt it will be that easily lost.

Still, I should point out that my 7095SUC was rendered useless precisely because I lost the tiny bearing while disassembling it. T.T
 
marcus52AR said:
It's what you sleep in when you're camping. "Get in detent"
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Ha!

I have to agree with scurvy. I am not so sure ZT knows who dis Jake Hoback is. He is a smaller maker after all.

KAI overall is a very stand up company and doing anything like stealing a design or "not giving credit" where it's due is probably against their code of ethics. Mr Igarashi and Mr Welk would never stand for it.
 
Charr said:
...<snip>
And again, I never tried to say that they used the exact HRD, just that this was similar in how it acted. I'm not stupid enough to think that there's an HRD in the 0392. That's obviously not the case. I was only saying that it DOES seem to have a detent ball that rolls in place.
Click to expand...

Charr said:
...<snip> I also feel like this might be a little bit of ZT being underhanded, given that Jake Hoback openly offers the rolling detent to be used by anyone, but does ask that they credit him, if they either use his hardware or his idea, which ZT has definitely not done if they are indeed using a rolling detent.
Click to expand...


I don't think the ZT detent balls are designed to be rolling.

Even if they had done so, I would not have called it "underhanded" to implement a rolling detent ball.

Mr. Hoback's system utilizes a tapped hole, socket and set screw arrangement where the ZT does not have any of that apparatus, it is just a ball pressed into the lockbar insert.

I would also add that Mr. Hoback does not credit Mr. Walker for the detent ball idea, and I don't think that makes him underhanded... I think it is admirable that Mr. Hoback came up with something that works and decided to share.

best

mqqn
 
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For the second time. The detent is pressed into the lockbar. It's not in the insert and its not its own housing. If it rolls, that's just the nature of it getting pressed in but I'm pretty sure they aren't supposed to.

Someone have to have a picture of the insert removed from the lockbar so you can see what we're saying.
 
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