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ZT 0452CF lockbar tension issue
- Thread starter Rasco
- Start date
Rival1314
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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so...is there an actual issue this time, or just another thread dedicated to the individual preference of detent strength (which is a preference nobody here will ever agree on) that will ultimately end up in trolling, accusations, and butthurt?
I like the strong detent on my 0452...but that's just me, living the fanboy life I suppose.
I like the strong detent on my 0452...but that's just me, living the fanboy life I suppose.
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Ok, now that I've made it past the initial barrier (for some reason, I had a really tough time all weekend creating this thread with a larger body of text in the initial post) let me expand...
Last week I fully disassembled my 0452CF and made a few minor adjustments.
1) I filed down the detent a bit so that it's more of a ramp than a hard step. Flips open a lot easier now. Very pleased with how it turned out.
2) I took off the steel lockbar insert / over-travel stopper and bent the lockbar back a little bit. This was an attempt to relieve some of the lockbar torsion that occurs when you're gripping the knife regularly.
It all went back together fine, blade perfectly centered etc.
Now my issue is that while it does flip easier, it's still having trouble locking up smoothly every time because of the blade scraping against the lockbar insert once it passes the ball bearing.
Last week I fully disassembled my 0452CF and made a few minor adjustments.
1) I filed down the detent a bit so that it's more of a ramp than a hard step. Flips open a lot easier now. Very pleased with how it turned out.
2) I took off the steel lockbar insert / over-travel stopper and bent the lockbar back a little bit. This was an attempt to relieve some of the lockbar torsion that occurs when you're gripping the knife regularly.
It all went back together fine, blade perfectly centered etc.
Now my issue is that while it does flip easier, it's still having trouble locking up smoothly every time because of the blade scraping against the lockbar insert once it passes the ball bearing.
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- Jan 3, 2014
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I know you know what I'm talking about, but here's a video anyway...
[video]http://vid9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/Rasc0/Snapchat--945063249275818047_zpskabj8h9h.mp4[/video]
I'd rather not have to send it to KAI. Is there a relatively easy way I can fix this?
More adjustment of the lockbar? It's pretty much where I want it, aside from the scraping. I'm afraid any more adjusting might result in a weak lockup.
Tips? Suggestions?
[video]http://vid9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/Rasc0/Snapchat--945063249275818047_zpskabj8h9h.mp4[/video]
I'd rather not have to send it to KAI. Is there a relatively easy way I can fix this?
More adjustment of the lockbar? It's pretty much where I want it, aside from the scraping. I'm afraid any more adjusting might result in a weak lockup.
Tips? Suggestions?
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- Jan 3, 2014
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Nah, the detent I fixed myself. It's just how I like it now.
But that scraping...
I got into my collection and compared every other Ti framelock folder I have, and none of them do this. At least, not to this extreme a degree.
Turn your speakers up and check my video, you can hear it grinding.
Rival1314
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Well....since you have already voided the warranty by filing away on the detent....(by the way, did you sand down the detent ball, or file the edge of the detent hole?) Regardless....kudos to you for tuning your own detent!
You can sand down the surface of the filler tab to 600+ to get it as smooth as possible, add a drop of nano oil on that part of the filler tab, this should help with temporarily making it "smoother" once its past the detent ball. Over time the metal on metal contact will smooth itself out, though im not sure if your expectations are going to be 100% fulfilled on this one. The design of this knife has incredibly tight tolerances due to the design of the handle and blade...the result is that the last part of the opening (past the detent ball) will always touch the tang....this is how it was designed. Not all knives are like this, but it is what it is and I don't think there is a quick fix. Mine was also a bit gritty past the detent from factory, though if you are flipping properly you should never really notice...the only way I was able to detect it was with a slow open, after another user had made the same observation. Ultimately, the softer detent setup you created is just amplifying your problem area. Personally...I did a blade treatment on mine and put a satin finish on the flats of the blade, and sanded down the surface area of the filler tab and the scratchiness on mine is now gone....but I did this not because of the scraping issue, but because I like the look of the two tone and the acid wash holds up better in use than the satin on the grinds.
When I get home I'll check on the sound and contact on the lockbar and perhaps post up a video link for you as well....
You can sand down the surface of the filler tab to 600+ to get it as smooth as possible, add a drop of nano oil on that part of the filler tab, this should help with temporarily making it "smoother" once its past the detent ball. Over time the metal on metal contact will smooth itself out, though im not sure if your expectations are going to be 100% fulfilled on this one. The design of this knife has incredibly tight tolerances due to the design of the handle and blade...the result is that the last part of the opening (past the detent ball) will always touch the tang....this is how it was designed. Not all knives are like this, but it is what it is and I don't think there is a quick fix. Mine was also a bit gritty past the detent from factory, though if you are flipping properly you should never really notice...the only way I was able to detect it was with a slow open, after another user had made the same observation. Ultimately, the softer detent setup you created is just amplifying your problem area. Personally...I did a blade treatment on mine and put a satin finish on the flats of the blade, and sanded down the surface area of the filler tab and the scratchiness on mine is now gone....but I did this not because of the scraping issue, but because I like the look of the two tone and the acid wash holds up better in use than the satin on the grinds.
When I get home I'll check on the sound and contact on the lockbar and perhaps post up a video link for you as well....
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I'm guessing it's what Rival suggested.
It's probably been this way all along, but with the detent so strong, I never really noticed it before, because the blade was always flipping with such force needed to overcome that detent.
I barely filed the lip of the detent hole, not the bearing itself.
I seriously doubt KAI would even be able to tell anything had been done there. So I'm not worried about having voided my warranty on a $200+ knife.
Is there anyone out there whose 0452CF DOESN'T scrape noticeably at the same point?
Give it a weak flip and check. If this is just something that needs to break in over time, I'm fine with that, and I'll try sanding it down a little, but I was just trying to get some feedback from other owners.
It's probably been this way all along, but with the detent so strong, I never really noticed it before, because the blade was always flipping with such force needed to overcome that detent.
I barely filed the lip of the detent hole, not the bearing itself.
I seriously doubt KAI would even be able to tell anything had been done there. So I'm not worried about having voided my warranty on a $200+ knife.
Is there anyone out there whose 0452CF DOESN'T scrape noticeably at the same point?
Give it a weak flip and check. If this is just something that needs to break in over time, I'm fine with that, and I'll try sanding it down a little, but I was just trying to get some feedback from other owners.
Rival1314
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Like I mentioned, all the 0452's will have this to some extent due to the design. The differentiating factors will be detent strength, and finish on the lockbar tab. Over time the metal/metal contact will smooth itself out and break in nicely.
regarding your detent mod....perfect job. Never file the detent ball (I've seen it done, and it never ends well). Rounding the edge of the hole will alow for a softer "break" upon deployment, and your tuning of lockbar strength is right on too
Give it time (and a drop of oil for now) and I'll bet you will be in good shape!
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I sanded the burr off the lockbar and smoothed the titanium lip that was making contact with the blade tang. If you look at the inside face of the lockbar on the side closest to the bottom of the handle, you'll see the small titanium strip that I'm talking about. Once the titanium is worn down enough, the blade steel makes contact with the lockbar insert and will be much smoother. Some CRK grease helps too.
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Looks like I'm having issues posting again.......
If I try to post anything longer than one or two lines of text, it times out and I get "ERR_CONNECTION_RESET" on my browser tab.....
For example, the 3 posts below were supposed to be 1 post... The only way I could get it to accept it was to break it into 3 shorter posts... Any mods know what's going on here??
If I try to post anything longer than one or two lines of text, it times out and I get "ERR_CONNECTION_RESET" on my browser tab.....
For example, the 3 posts below were supposed to be 1 post... The only way I could get it to accept it was to break it into 3 shorter posts... Any mods know what's going on here??
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Either way, sounds like the next thing I need to try is to take it apart again and sand it down a little bit, or see if I can polish it up.
One thing I noticed about the lockbar insert / overtravel stop was that it had a nice chunk bent off, like it had been seriously nicked by something.... Almost looked like a bit of plastic still stuck to a piece of model after being cut from the sprue...?
One thing I noticed about the lockbar insert / overtravel stop was that it had a nice chunk bent off, like it had been seriously nicked by something.... Almost looked like a bit of plastic still stuck to a piece of model after being cut from the sprue...?
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I had the same issue with a few different knives. My 0452cf was a bit gritty after the detent ball dropped off. But my thoughts were that when you actually flip the knife the detent fired the blade so fast that I never thought the thing would rub anyway and just engage and lock up and skip that part of the lockbar. I have had several knives though that had this issue. I did as rival suggested and it always works out pretty well. Even on a few customs I had the maker actually ground a ramp after the detent ball and sanded it in the direction of the blade movement.
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Yeah I think when the detent was stiffer, I was basically just "jumping" that part and not feeling it. It didn't have time to get stuck or grind.
But now with the weaker detent, (which I love btw) the blade doesn't seem to have enough centrifugal force to make that leap, or to slide past it quickly without grinding or becoming stuck.
Ultimately, I want my 0452CF to flip like my Horizon C, or I'd even settle for my 0560. Now that I've "fixed" the detent, I want that smoothness....
But now with the weaker detent, (which I love btw) the blade doesn't seem to have enough centrifugal force to make that leap, or to slide past it quickly without grinding or becoming stuck.
Ultimately, I want my 0452CF to flip like my Horizon C, or I'd even settle for my 0560. Now that I've "fixed" the detent, I want that smoothness....