ZT 0561 Thumb Stud Promblem, and whats the the point of buying a XM-18 now?

S

Stephen1337

Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
63
Ok so I have decided I am going to lay down the $260 bucks and buy me a 0560. But after reading some of the reviews im having secound thoughts. Alot of people are complaining about the thumb studs and how they are completely useless. I have a 0300 and I usaully use the thumb studs on that and I usaully prefer them. But maybe the 0561 is just a flipper knife that is what im thinking. Is the thumb stud like the 0300 or completly different? I just think its wierd that its just there and is pointless but oh well.

Also what is the point of buying a XM-18 now becuase the 0561 is almost exactly like it and is $260 bucks! Hopefully making this new knife with ZT will maybe fund them more and they can put out more knives... and maybe lower prices? :D

So yeah guys what do you think?
 
The thumb studs on my 0560 function perfectly...flips out equally fast regardless of thumb stud or flipper deployment.
 
My 0561 deploys a little easier with the flipper, but it's not a problem to use the thumb stud. My 0550 on the other hand is almost undeployable with the stud. There are threads on how to address this I think.
 
well you should remember these are blade stops. that is their main function. they also do work as a thumb stud but the purpose of those are to stop vertical blade travle as oposed to a stop pin in the handles. this knife is designed around the fliper deployment but you could use the blade stop as a thumb stud.

the purpose of buying an xm-18 is for the extreme quality and exclusivity. not many people can buy a hand crafted knife buy a master craftsman. rather than a machine. they will be shiping out those ZT'S by the crate or truckload while rick is driving these knives to the local fedex and shipping them off to you. a new run of hinderers does not come out too often and i would lover to be on that list. a hinderer is not bought for 100% function. people buy them because they love that knife and that knife makers quality and want to be apart of a small list. if we are buying honest a xm-18 3.5 will not blow away most spyderco's as far as pure cutters go. a military, manix 2 ffg, native 5 or para 2 will slice just as good.

that being said ZT's are amazing knives and i will be grabing a 0561 asap. i think the 0560/0561 is an amazing knife for users. they can beat up a knife very similar to their grail knife and not needing to worry about a knife with a resale value of $800+
 
Funny I brought over the Zt0560 and a Hinderer XM-18 to my buddy that has been carrying and using knives for almost 30 years. He said if both knives where priced at the same price he would take the Hinderer as it was plainer looking. After he was told the prices on both knives it was quite clear he would take 3 ZT's over one Hinderer. Don't get me wrong the Hinderer is a nice knife for $300 but for the price they are commanding I don't see what the big deal is. I personally and my 2 other knife collecting guys bought them and sold them never understanding the price or the hype. To each their own!



imbryan715 said:
well you should remember these are blade stops. that is their main function. they also do work as a thumb stud but the purpose of those are to stop vertical blade travle as oposed to a stop pin in the handles. this knife is designed around the fliper deployment but you could use the blade stop as a thumb stud.

the purpose of buying an xm-18 is for the extreme quality and exclusivity. not many people can buy a hand crafted knife buy a master craftsman. rather than a machine. they will be shiping out those ZT'S by the crate or truckload while rick is driving these knives to the local fedex and shipping them off to you. a new run of hinderers does not come out too often and i would lover to be on that list. a hinderer is not bought for 100% function. people buy them because they love that knife and that knife makers quality and want to be apart of a small list. if we are buying honest a xm-18 3.5 will not blow away most spyderco's as far as pure cutters go. a military, manix 2 ffg, native 5 or para 2 will slice just as good.

that being said ZT's are amazing knives and i will be grabing a 0561 asap. i think the 0560/0561 is an amazing knife for users. they can beat up a knife very similar to their grail knife and not needing to worry about a knife with a resale value of $800+
Click to expand...
 
The thumb studs work great actually, it just takes some time to figure out how to use them. With the 300 you push out with the thumb stud, the 560 you need to push upwards, at least thats what I've found.
 
Push the thumbstuds up, like the Umnumzaan, not out like one would normally using a Spyderco hole etc. Thats what I heard.

Why still buy a Hinderer XM-18? Thats like asking the old question why buy a Sebenza/or any other high end knife. Because it is a Hinderer, the quality is exceptional and backed up by a great guy. If you cant justify the price, then dont.
 
Go read the thread in the Kershaw/ZT section from the Kershaw rep where they specifically state that they are NOT thumb studs, they are blade stops. They were never intended as thumb studs, it is a flipper knife.

There has been so much consternation from people wanting to use the blade stops as thumb studs that they actually wish they would have designed it with a traditional pin and not external thumbstuds/blade stops.
 
I suppose I need to explain the detent portion of the 0560, and our reasoning behind the set up. After some internal conversation yesterday, we feel we’ve brought forth confusion with this knife. By utilizing the studs as the blade stop, we’re enticing folks to use the studs as a way of opening the knife. The set up (heavy detent) can make the studs difficult if not impossible (for some) to deploy the blade. Inexperience hands will additionally perplex the situation. In retrospect, we should have left the studs off, done up an internal stop pin, and made the 0560 a no doubt flipper…our bad on that one. For those of you that can utilize both the flipper and the studs effectively…we’re happy you’ve found that balance. From a production build perspective it is near impossible for us to repeatedly dial in a 0560 that balances a perfect detent set up to accommodate for both flipping and thumb stud deployment.
Click to expand...
AS quoted from Thomas
 
I havent handled a 560 yet but I have a XM-18. One difference on why you would buy one over the other (besides price) is blade grind. ZT560 is hollow grind and the XM-18 is a spanto done very very well. Also the teflon washers do provide a different feel. While the ZT is modeled after the XM I'm not sure if would feel the same. When we are talking about knives that are the quality of these two its really splitting hairs when talking about normal use. They will both cut and last. On a side note I never had problems deploying the XM with the studs or flipper. Like Thomas said in the quote "From a production build perspective it is near impossible for us to repeatedly dial in a 0560 that balances a perfect detent set up to accommodate for both flipping and thumb stud deployment." Apparently Hinderer HAS done this in his XM, part of what your paying for I guess.
 
Stephen1337 said:
Also what is the point of buying a XM-18 now becuase the 0561 is almost exactly like it and is $260 bucks!
Click to expand...

Having handled both, I can safely say that the ZT0560/1 is not even close to the XM-18.

Although the ZT0561 is a great folder(in fact it's arguably one of the best production flippers out in the market), it still can't touch the XM-18 in terms of build quality as well as F&F.
 
The 0560/0561 are hollow ground? Is that news to anyone else? My new yesterday 0561 sure seems flat ground. As to price, the question an older gentleman asked me as I perused the 0560/0561's yesterday at a local knife counter was classic. "What will that $300 knife do that a $30 knife won't?". Throw in an $800 Hinderer and the question is again the same. The answer is similar - just the scale is skewed. I simply replied that such a technical work of art gave it's owner great pride of ownership. I felt apologetic... the fellow was 70-ish - and I'm 63. I should have better sense than to waste so much on something so simple. Nope... not me. My 0561 is number three in the costliest knives I own list - behind a small plain Sebbie and a StarTac Umnumzaan. Yeah, the CR knives are super... but their finesse over the new ZT is not as apparent as one would expect - but then my other ZT's, a 0301 and a pair of 0551's, are right up there as to quality of fit and finish. A trip to WallyWorld and you can still land a great quality US-made knife, a Buck 110, for ~$30 - and it will do anything the ZT's will, cutting wise. A better slicer, that 110 is hollow ground - and delivered sharp!

I've fondled an XM-18. Wow. I bought a ZT-0561 - to me, it is an XM-18. I'm still in shock. Oh, and it may be my Umnumzaan familiarity, but I had no problem deploying any of the new ZT's, the two each 0560 & 0561 demo's or my NIB 0561, by the stop-studs. They were all easier by flipper, of course, and very consistent. The lockbar engagement was also consistent at ~30% on each example while the engagement as a function of deployment speed was a non-factor after a few initial deployments. The blades were uniform in their centering and relative sharpness, albeit not quite to the armhair razor sharpness level, oddly, as that $30 Buck 110. My love for the 0551 is still there, but they were delivered with a range of off-centered blades and varied blade tightness - easily remedied by adjusting the pivot screw tension. If nothing else, the 0560/0561 bearing bought greater consistency. It's really a nice knife!

Stainz
 
I guess I don't understand why you seem to have such a problem with using the flipper. It's always worked great for me. Maybe I'm missing something.
 
The thumbstuds are functional, perhaps it might take some practice/building familiarity with how the knife works might help? There are people that do not have the manual dexterity or coordination to launch a knife with a thumbstud. As for the price, it's not cheap to machine Titanium and G10, I'd also imagine that Elmax is not on the same level as 14C28N as far as machinability and heat treat time/cost. The XM18 is a completely different knife, so I am not sure what your point is regarding that.

Samael said:
I guess I don't understand why you seem to have such a problem with using the flipper. It's always worked great for me. Maybe I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

Randall has a flipper?!?! :D
 
nilfire77 said:
Having handled both, I can safely say that the ZT0560/1 is not even close to the XM-18.

Although the ZT0561 is a great folder(in fact it's arguably one of the best production flippers out in the market), it still can't touch the XM-18 in terms of build quality as well as F&F.
Click to expand...

I agree on all counts.

I do own an XM-18 and I specifically ordered it without a flipper. No regrets at all about the decision.
It opens extremely easy with the thumbstuds/bladestops.

The ZT 560 series are nice knives, but they aren't XM's by a long shot.

Does anyone really think that Rick would offer a cheaper product that would compete for sales with his semi-customs?
 
There are a lot of ZT fanboys on this site and that is not a bad thing. The reviews are sometimes misleading because of the knives and experience of knives the reviewer has owned.
That said, I have owned a lot of ZT knives but in the end they are nice mid/upper-grade production knives. They are not in the same league as a Strider or Hinderer. For the price, ZT is a great knife but if your taste are more custom, a ZT will not fit that bill. Another thing to consider is the real street price of a ZT once it has been out for a while. You can find them much much less than msrp. That cant be said for Strider and Hinderer.
 
I had that same problem with the ZT 350. Turns out I was just doing it wrong. Push more out rather than up, and it deploys just fine. Might be the case with this one as well.
 
mystro said:
There are a lot of ZT fanboys on this site and that is not a bad thing. The reviews are sometimes misleading because of the knives and experience of knives the reviewer has owned.
That said, I have owned a lot of ZT knives but in the end they are nice mid/upper-grade production knives. They are not in the same league as a Strider or Hinderer. For the price, ZT is a great knife but if your taste are more custom, a ZT will not fit that bill. Another thing to consider is the real street price of a ZT once it has been out for a while. You can find them much much less than msrp. That cant be said for Strider and Hinderer.
Click to expand...


I see what you mean by same league as hinderer but I think Zero tolerance is in a higher league then most Striders I say most because the sj 75 is great but not so much the sng , smf, fit and finish is better with zero tolerance as value
 
Value is subjective but the big difference is that Strider builds a tough knife that weighs much less than any knife in its class.
As much as I loved my 0300,0200 or even the 0350, they were too heavy of a knife compared to other options. My fit and finish on all those knives were average at best. Blade centering was way off on the 0300 and 0350. I sent the 0350 back to ZT and it came back a bit better but the blade centering was still off. I have owned 6 Striders and they were all perfect right out of the box.

Bwolcott said:
I see what you mean by same league as hinderer but I think Zero tolerance is in a higher league then most Striders I say most because the sj 75 is great but not so much the sng , smf, fit and finish is better with zero tolerance as value
Click to expand...

My ZT0200 is still my favorite ZT knife. It's a steel at its street price.

ZTclosedcombo.jpg
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top