ZT Discontinuing Elmax!?

dkb45 said:
I am sad to hear Elmax being on the outs, I really love that steel. While S35VN is a lot better than S30V, lower grade steels are lower grade. That would be like getting rid of S30V and replacing it with D2, performance is close enough that most people would barely notice a difference, but the steel is just lower grade.
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s30v and s35vn are definitely not lower grade steels imo.
 
stonproject said:
s30v and s35vn are definitely not lower grade steels imo.
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In all fairness, I'm not under the impression the person you quoted was referring to those steels as "low grade" inherently, but "lower grade" by comparison to Elmax. Rubies are still precious gems, but definitely less precious than diamonds, etc
 
Comeuppance said:
In all fairness, I'm not under the impression the person you quoted was referring to those steels as "low grade" inherently, but "lower grade" by comparison to Elmax. Rubies are still precious gems, but definitely less precious than diamonds, etc
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My exact thoughts. It is all relative. 154cm is a great steel, but compare it to S110V and it is a lower end steel. It really isn't a point of contention that Elmax is a slightly "higher grade" steel than S30V and S35VN, same as Elmax is lower grade than M390, and M390 is lower grade than S110V. I prefer Elmax, but so long as the knives aren't made with S30V instead, I can live with it. S30V has betrayed me in the past.
 
I feel like a lot of people who were bemoaning Elmax for 'only' performing as well as s30v in a certain youtubers video are now upset Elmax is being discontinued because it's a class higher than s30/s35.

I've always looked at the three of them pretty interchangably.
 
dano said:
Does it matter, other then what's stamped on the blade? There's so little performance difference between all these materials, that it's a non issue, other than bragging rights....
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Spartan00 said:
Average user will not use their steels to their full potential . Zt could probably get away with using 420hc and stamping it s35vn.
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Scurvy092 said:
I've always looked at the three of them pretty interchangably.
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^^^ This, pretty much sums up how I feel.
 
dkb45 said:
My exact thoughts. It is all relative. 154cm is a great steel, but compare it to S110V and it is a lower end steel. It really isn't a point of contention that Elmax is a slightly "higher grade" steel than S30V and S35VN, same as Elmax is lower grade than M390, and M390 is lower grade than S110V. I prefer Elmax, but so long as the knives aren't made with S30V instead, I can live with it. S30V has betrayed me in the past.
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You can say CPM-154 is higher end than 154CM but not with S110V. They are just two different animals, extraordinary high wear for food industry vs all around conventional stainless which developed for turbine blade.

I think when people choose the word "higher end" or "better" they should specify at which task?

S110V might be better at cutting robe while S30V, 154CM, or even M390 are better at carving hard wood and most hard use because it is significantly tougher.
 
shqxk said:
You can say CPM-154 is higher end than 154CM but not with S110V. They are just two different animals, extraordinary high wear for food industry vs all around conventional stainless which developed for turbine blade.

I think when people choose the word "higher end" or "better" they should specify at which task?

S110V might be better at cutting robe while S30V, 154CM, or even M390 are better at carving hard wood and most hard use because it is significantly tougher.
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Ya, I think that's pretty good logic. I do tend to be alright, though, with proclaiming one steel a "better" knife steel than another, with little to no qualifiers when it comes to steels that don't have blaring weaknesses in their games, such as an M390 for example. I'm cool with folks saying M390/20CV/etc. is a better knife steel than s30v or AUS8 or 440c or 154cm, because assuming all of the steels in question have good professional HTs to maximize each steel's "all-around" performance, & let's say for this example that all 5 knives are the same model made by the same dude/dudette, one of the 5 steels will clearly emerge as the superior all-around performer in the group - standing out as the top performer in most of the major categories, without a subpar performance (to me, this doesn't necessitate the "better" all around knife steel rating #1 out of 5 in every single major knife performance category, when tested, just not ranking below average/mean of the 5 steels tested in even one category) in even one important "area" like toughness, edge holding, corrosion res....yada yada yada, when tested with knife tasks...whatever that means to you/the tester....I'd defer to a fellow like Ankerson on the specifics.

And importantly, I also agree that it's difficult to impossible to tell the difference between a good knife steel & a great one like M390 in "typical" real world usage, especially when knives are used like I use them....to cut, carve, slice stuff as life happens - EDC tasks. When I'm not subjecting different steels to regimented testing where their qualities fully reveal themselves, I'm much less likely to tell much a difference in light-medium levels of use. On the other hand, it's easier to tell a difference between M390 and 1075....the 1075 may show signs of corrosion if treated the same as the M390 of course, but one may also actually notice a significant edge holding difference in light-medium EDC usage.

What have we learned here? I don't know either....I was hoping you guys could tell me!
 
shqxk said:
You can say CPM-154 is higher end than 154CM but not with S110V. They are just two different animals, extraordinary high wear for food industry vs all around conventional stainless which developed for turbine blade.

I think when people choose the word "higher end" or "better" they should specify at which task?

S110V might be better at cutting robe while S30V, 154CM, or even M390 are better at carving hard wood and most hard use because it is significantly tougher.
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You know all anyone cares about is how long can I use this without having to sharpen it...
 
Scurvy092 said:
You know all anyone cares about is how long can I use this without having to sharpen it...
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I really cannot believe this oversimplified comment of yours.

What about the...uh, well there's the....OK, but....crap, you're right. Assuming we're talking about all of the options being stainless steels, ya....will my knife not stain/pit?, and can I go a good long while without worrying about the edge?...those are the two questions I really care about relative to my knife steels. A lot of guys will put one other question on their lists, & often put it in the #1 spot - Will this blade be tough enough for my manliness? I'm one of those guys who believes that all good to great modern steels used to make knives are plenty tough enough for knife tasks - of course assuming proper HT & design...so I leave the toughness question off of my list.
 
S35VN is fine, it's all going to come down to how Kershaw heat treats it in the end.

For most end users the S35VN, S30V, ELMAX range is going to be VERY close, most wouldn't know the difference in everyday use.

So wait and see what they do with it.
 
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