ZT Hinderer v. Hinderer

Side by side the Hinderer hands down. When you compare what you get per dollar the choice isn't as clear. The ZT is a well built value edition of the Hinderer and will last you for years and years of good use. I own an XM-18 and have owned 4 over the last few months trying to find the blade grind I liked best. I owned a 0550 but traded it a while back. If I still had the 0550 I don't know if I'd carry it since I have the XM. That doesn't mean the 0550 is a bad knife but it doesn't beat out the XM head-to-head.
 
I think I have to go for the ZT. Having to deal with Rob Orlando sucks. Having to deal with the CS dept at ZT is really good. I've owned an xm and wasn't that impressed. For what ZT charges and what they produce and how they treat their customers, I have to go with ZT all the way. The slightly better fit and finish from Hinderer doesn't outweigh the cons of the higher costs and worse customer service.
 
Wait a "short" while until the 0562 & 0562CF come out and I think it'll be ZT hands down once you take into account ZT's value pricing. ZT 0562CF is about the same size as the XM-18 3.5". It has a better flipper action, CF instead of G-10, M390 instead of S35VN and all for about $200-240! Quality is better with Hinderer but CS is ZT hands down.
 
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The Hinderer.... Hands down. All of this is my humble opinion of course ;) I like the weight and ergos of the XM-18, the knife always centers perfectly after disassembly and cleaning, it rides on copper bushings / washers but has to be one of the smoothest flippers I own. I'll compare it to anything I own, bearings or no bearings. I've never had a problem with the lockup on either the 3" or the 3.5" XM's. The ZT's I have owned all had great fit and finish but I'd give it to the Hinderers for having even nicer design and even better fit and finish. (I'm totally nit picking here but since you asked :) The only flipper I've liked better than my XM-18 was a Begg field grade bodega riding on ceramic bearings...

Had a ZT 0561 and sold it off due to lock face problems, even after it was fixed by KAI I thought it was too light and just wasn't head over heels with it....I've never owned a 550 or a 566. I have other ZT's but they are not Hinderer colabs.

I like my ZT's as well, I have a 0562CF coming in (at some point Lol) Very exited about that but be that as it may, I would probably sell that one first before I got rid of my Hinderer XM-18's.

Remember... when a mid tech maker collaborates with a higher volume production company, usually their contribution is mostly design. Rick Hinderer isn't grinding any steel for the ZT / Hinderer collabs (not that i've heard of anyway:D A Collaberation can be pretty close to the original but nothing beats an original... IMHO ;)

My unsolicited advice would be to pick up a real Hinderer... Try not to overpay, even a user Hinderer after a spa trip would be like new if not better because its been broken in and the lock up would be nice and seated. If you decide it's not for you, sell it. You probably won't loose any money (emphasis on don't over pay) and i'm pretty sure it won't sit too long on the exchange...
 
Let's talk fit & finish for a moment. This is an area where people blow the horn for customs and mid tech all day long, and I think it has simply become something that people *assume*.

Fit... I have two ZT Hinderers (0550, 0566) and have handled multiple samples of 0560s and 0561s as well. I have yet to see *any* that aren't perfect with regard to blade centering, scale to liner fit, lock bar seams, etc. Literally every sample I've seen has been perfectly constructed. The only issue I've seen has been the *too tight* detent on my 0550, which I knew about before I put money on it (I wanted the gen 1 pocket clip). This was a known thing, and has been corrected on gen 2 as I understand it.

So how are Hinderers fit better?


Finish... Custom hardware and touches. OK. I won't even argue against that, though the 3D machining on the 0560 is arguably even better to the eye than anything the XM-18 has going on visually.


So what we're really talking about are aesthetic points and blade grind preferences.

I'll be honest... The best looking Hinderer I have seen, by FAR, is a ZT 0550 with custom scale and lanyard. Poster 'Gemini' on another board has posted many shots of it there.

Performance wise? No real difference.

That makes it money vs aesthetics. I'm perfectly happy with the ZT offerings.
 
I have owned neither. So all I have are observations. When looking on the exchange you will notice that you can get ZTs for a little less than retail. Hinderers, however go for upwards to $300 more than original price. Granted they are less abundant than mass production knives like ZT. I would get the Hinderer, because if I didn't like it, I would have no problem selling it for at least close to what I spent, if not a decent profit (if you are a first responder and got it retail). Then I could buy any ZT I wanted.
Just my twopence.
 
dcmartin said:
The Hinderer.... Hands down. All of this is my humble opinion of course ;) I like the weight and ergos of the XM-18, the knife always centers perfectly after disassembly and cleaning, it rides on copper bushings / washers but has to be one of the smoothest flippers I own.
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Hinderers utilize Teflon washers.

My vote goes to the Hinderers. Having owned quite a few XM 18s and an XM 24, I enjoy the ergos of my XMs overs those of the ZTs I have owned. For what the ZTs are they are great knives, but there is something about them that doesn't seem as solid to me as my XM 18s. I have owned the ZT 0560/61/60CBCF and quite a few 0551 and a 0550. For me, the Hinderer they were modelled after wins every time. I also appreciate the ability to customize them with factory parts rather than waiting on the aftermarket to catch up.
 
centennial said:
But, you didn't tell us why.
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The ergonomics on the XM-18 are much better than the 0550. The lockup is better than the 0550. I've used mine a lot in the past few months and flipped it a lot and the lock hasn't budged. The lock disengages on the XM smoother as well. CS is a wash as both are great. I've handled the 0562 and it's very nice and fits in the hand more like the XM but it's a bit thinner and unlike most people I prefer the Ti on steel lockup rather than a steel insert. All the components of the XM seem beefier and better made. They are made in shop, save the pocket clip screws, and not outsourced.
 
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I absolutely love the Hinderer/Zt knives, can't wait for the 0562 to be released, but the Xm-18 and Eklipse are my favorites.
 
RamZar said:
Wait a "short" while until the 0562 & 0562CF come out and I think it'll be ZT hands down once you take into account ZT's value pricing. ZT 0562CF is about the same size as the XM-18 3.5". It has a better flipper action, CF instead of G-10, M390 instead of S35VN and all for about $200-240! Quality is better with Hinderer but CS is ZT hands down.
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This^^^^. My suspicion is that it will be very difficult to justify paying the delta to purchase a 3.5" XM-18 once the 0562CF is released.
 
Knife-for-knife, I'd probably go with a Hinderer. I prefer their designs/colors/grinds over the ZTs (especially the wharnie, I just love that blade shape), and the steels are generally considered to be better. The fit and finish are virtually identical, though the ZT 0560 generally flips better than XM-18s (or so I've been told) on account of its bearings system.

Dollar-for-dollar, ZT is the undisputed winner. Even at first-responder pricing, Hinderers cost twice as much as a ZT 0560 (or an 0562, whenever that drops) and it's just not worth the extra cost, IMO. Especially once you factor in KAI's stellar customer service.
 
alwayscarryaknife said:
The ergonomics on the XM-18 are much better than the 0550. The lockup is better than the 0550. I've used mine a lot in the past few months and flipped it a lot and the lock has budged. The lock disengages on the XM smoother as well. CS is a wash as both are great. I've handled the 0562 and it's very nice and fits in the hand more like the XM but it's a bit thinner and unlike most people I prefer the Ti on steel lockup rather than a steel insert. All the components of the XM seem beefier and better made. They are made in shop, save the pocket clip screws, and not outsourced.
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I think it's better to discuss specific models in contrast to their sisters. 0560 and 0562 vs XM-18, 0550 vs Camp Knife, etc

As far as brand comparisons, that's a different story.
 
Hinderer for the details. The XM-18 has a nicely chamfered spine, attractive hardware, and a filler tab so it doesn't have a bunch of holes all over the knife. I like the Hinderer pocket clip much more than the 560 clip, even though I normally prefer deep carry clips. I'd take Hinderer's S35VN over ZT's Elmax any day of the week, and the slicer grind over the standard 560 grind. The Hinderer may only have teflon washers, but my Hinderer is still smoother than any 560 I've ever handled. Also, Hinderer's stonewash is a great finish that hides wear quite well.

The 562CF has a good chance to close the gap, but IMO the real home run for ZT will be the 392. Only time will tell.
 
I doubt that there will be many that'll say that the ZT is better than the Hinderer, save the flipping action.
If money isn't a issue, the Hinderer all the way.
However, many of us aren't in that boat or willing to jump into the sharkendary infested market waters to pay for one.

I like it when a respected high volume production company does these because it does allow the access to many quality designs that they wouldn't be able to afford in the first place
 
ZT offers all of the function of a Hinderer. Money beyond that goes to exclusivity.
 
Since both use similar materials, how do you judge a ZT and a Hinderer side by side? The ZT fit and finish seems to be quite perfect, and I assume the Hinderer also has a perfect fit and finish.
 
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