ZT Hinderer v. Hinderer

For most people, I think the ZT Hinderers are better knives.

If your primary purpose is just a hard-use knife and value is a desired trait, the ZT Hinderers are better knives hands-down.

If fit-and-finish is more important than value and value is of minimal importance, the XM-18 is better hands-down. With that said, the F&F on the ZTs are generally excellent. The XM just takes it up a few notches.

As the ZT Hinderer and the XM-18 models have very different blades, one blade design may make it a better knife. I think the Spanto is one of the best hard-work blades currently around. Steel-wise, you see S35VN on most Hinderers, where as you see S35VN and ELMAX on ZT Hinderers. I personally think both steels are excellent and very similar in how they perform. As ZT is about to release Hinderer-ZTs with Bohler M390 steel, this could be a huge advantage for someone looking more for M390's properties over ELMAX or S35VN.

I have found the 3 and 3.5 inch Hinderers to be a good bit more compact than the ZT Hinderers, and I think they carry a little better and like the ergos a bit more.

The bottom line on functionality IMO is that the ZT Hinderers are more or less capable of everything the XM-18 is, and at a fraction of the price and without seeing sales prices 300% plus over MSRP.
 
Just wait for the 0392 too. ZT with some hinderer made hardware. I can already tell that'll be a beast.
 
TotalDbag said:
Just wait for the 0392 too. ZT with some hinderer made hardware. I can already tell that'll be a beast.
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I find it very interesting that the 0562 and 0392 are essentially very very close copies of Hinderer knives (they both look awesome and i would be buy them both). It feels to me that Hinderer is now fully giving up the exclusivity of the visual design so that more folks can buy his style knife, which is great. So style and geometry wise i think it is fair to say that this next generation of ZTs will be the same as a some of the Hinderer models. It really is up to ZT to ensure that fit and finish are excellent and there really is no excuse in this age of computer aided everything. Of course nothing can replace the original so there will always be the real or perceived difference. Having said that, i personally believe that secondary market values of Hinderers will go down somewhat and maybe approach MSRP.
 
If your just stacking up knife against knife than Hinderer of course. But if you consider and factor in other things such as value, availability, etc
than ZT can give it a run for its money. But in my mind a production knife will never be on the same level as a mid tech level knife.
 
I first bought a ZT 0560, and loved it. Then bought an XM-18, and didn't because it was smaller. Next I bought an XM-24 (slicer) and wow! It's thicker, heavier and not as rounded as the 0560, and I like that. You may not.
The 0560 flips easier, but I prefer the flipping action of the XM, it's smoother and quieter.
I bought an XM-24 spanto, and love it too.
I carry an XM-24 and the 0560 every day, but the XM is to use, and the 0560 is to lend.
As to customer service, I copied this from a recent post I made:

I emailed Rob once on a Friday evening about getting a couple of filler tabs, expecting a reply sometime the following week. Instead, he replied that very evening at about 10! Now that's customer service.

Are Hinderers worth the price? They are to me. I'm hoping they'll come out with a production XM-24 wharncliffe, and I'll buy another.
 
Although I'm not a fanboy of either ZT or Hinderer I've owned and used both and in my opinion the ZT 0560 was a much better knife than the XM-18 that I owned.
I don't know where the fit and finish argument comes from but both the knives I had were flawless, neither really better than the other. The ZT flipped much better( which doesn't matter much to me because I'm not a huge fan of flipper knives ), the ZT wasn't riding on Teflon washers which I liked a lot. I hate it when you pay top dollar for a knife and it comes with Teflon washers( again, my opinion ). The grind on the 0561 made it a better slicer when compared to my spanto XM which seemed like a sharpened pry bar.
At less than 1/2 the cost the ZT seems to do what I need better, open and cut.

I understand that many will disagree with my opinion, some of whom will have used an XM for many years and will consider it the best blade ever created. I'm not saying that they're wrong, I'm just stating that the ZT does it all just as well at a lesser price and fits my needs better. In the end I sold all of both of them and settled into a CRK addiction so it isn't just a cost issue, I have no problem spending good money on a great knife.
 
RBid said:
I think it's better to discuss specific models in contrast to their sisters. 0560 and 0562 vs XM-18, 0550 vs Camp Knife, etc

As far as brand comparisons, that's a different story.
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Agreed, but I never owned or held a 0560 so couldn't comment on that. I have handled the 0562 and it felt nice but it was at a show so I can't comment on it since it wasn't a version released into the wild. It was a beautiful piece and would likely perform well under hard use. I did say that per dollar it really is hard to not say ZT as both brands have great build quality. The XM's are just built in smaller numbers and have in house hardware so there's going to be a higher cost involved. If you're willing to pay for that then I think you've decided it's worth it to you. It's a pride of ownership thing.
 
reapinItUP said:
If your just stacking up knife against knife than Hinderer of course. But if you consider and factor in other things such as value, availability, etc
than ZT can give it a run for its money. But in my mind a production knife will never be on the same level as a mid tech level knife.
Click to expand...

The only thing that the hinderer has over the ZT is a slight edge with f&f and more options for blade and scales. It is a worse flipper to boot.

That said, is the hinderer $400-800 better than the ZT the secondary/non-direct sellers command?
Heck no. This isn't a "my walmart knife is just as good as your sabenza" type argument but more like a "my production microtech is just as good as your marfione custom"
 
I will offer my opinion on this already very well discussed and well thought out discussion. I have personally owned about 5 XM-18's and 2 XM-24's. I currently own 1XM-24 and 1 ZT 561.

In the area of f/f, I don't see where folks get that Hinderer's are so much better. I find the F/F on the ZT to be fantastic, and on par with anything out there. My 561 is great. It is centered perfect, the detent is very strong, that makes the flipper work fantastic. The ZT rides on bearings. The strong detent and the bearings combine to make a fantastic flipper. I don't give a darn what people say, the Hinderer is NOT a great flipper. It flips, but it's not a great flipper. The ZT flips fantastic.

Steel choice is mostly a wash. All newer Hinderers are S35VN. My 561 is Elmax. I don't think many folks could tell the difference if they didn't know. I just REALLY don't think that s35VN and Elmax are so far apart that you'd EVER know the difference in real world use. Day after day they are both great steels that are very, very functional for what you need folding knife steels to do. I have about all the "super steels", and until you get into M390 and up, I don't see much difference in Elmax and S35VN.

Cost is where we really have a discussion. I qualify for direct pricing. Of all the Hinderer's I have owned, I have bought exactly 1 from Hinderer. My first one. The others I bought on the open market. Why you ask? Steel choices. I wanted 20CV. In order to buy those, I had to pay what the market would bear. I also WOULD NOT buy knives from Hinderer and flip them for profit. I think that is immoral, and a slap in Mr. Hinderer's face. If I wanna play, I will pay. In my opinion, the knives are well worth the factory MSRP. I think they are even worth a bit more. How much more is up to you. My current XM-24 I got in a trade. I have run the XM gamut, and for my likes and tastes, the 24 is the best for me, and my likes. That said, the ZT 561 is dang near what a XM24 is, at about 25% the cost. From a strictly monetary position, the ZT 561 is a HECK of a knife for under $200. You get a big, beefy, flipper, on bearings, in Elmax, for a fair price.

In the end the worth is in the eyes of the end user. You will never know unless you try one. If you don't have the $500-800 to own a Hinderer, rest assured, the ZT's are very, very good. You aren't missing that much for the huge price difference.
 
Based on my personal experience, Hinderer wins out over ZT if you do not factor in the price points. I have an XM-18 and XM-24 - centering and lockup are excellent on both. Grinds are also even and sharp on both knives but have to note that my XM-18 has been pimped. With ZT on the other hand, my multiple 0560 and 0550 examples were not so nice. Experienced lock slip on both which really surprised me as the lockup was at 35% to 50%, not super early. My original 0560 was fine though - flipping action was far better than my XM-24. The ergonomics were superior on the Hinderer knives.

As for customer service, I only have limited experience. I sent an email once to Hinderer with some questions and a request and never heard back from them. And I agree with some of the other members that Mr. Orlando can rub people the wrong way.

All in all, it is tough to argue that a Hinderer at secondary prices is worth the three to four equivalent ZT knives. To the people who can afford to go with Hinderer, it is the better option.
 
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