ZT301 titanium question?

ideal25

ideal25

Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
85
I received my first ZT this week. Its everything I hoped for plus some.
after observing the knife thoroughly, I became curious about the construction.
The front side has thick green g10 with stainless steel liner, the other side (the side with the frame lock) has what looks like thin grey g10 with no liner.
Im wondering if this is titanium, but I didn't think that titanium was flexible enough for the liner lock. but it cant be only g10, I would think that it would crack with repeated use...someone out there must know the true construction of this knife....Thanks Tom C
 
They put the titanium on there for a reason, you know. Lets say you are piloting an SR-71 Blackbird spy plane at 70,000 feet and your starboard Pratt & Whitney J58-P4 engine is struck by a Russian surface to air missile. If you have to eject, your body will soon reach a speed of 18,000 mph as you rocket back into the upper troposphere. You can't deploy your chute at that altitude because there is simply no air up there. That speed creates friction, and heats things up. Let say you deploy your chute at 6,000 feet or so, and its gets tangled in the drogue. You have to use your ZT301 to cut the chute free so you can deploy the backup chute. If that lock were not made of titanium, it would have overheated from the high velocity descent and you would not be able to hold it while you cut away your primary chute. This has happened to me at least 3 times, so I know what I'm talking about.

So, they don't put that titanium on there just for giggles, you know. It serves a purpose.
 
Its a ti lock and its great knife made by a great company. That knife will take a heck of lot. Top shelf as far as frame locks go. Most every one I've owned has been as flawless and consistent as you can hope for in anything.

STR
 
Beauty is that the thumb stud makes contact with the titanium AND the thin steel scale on the opposing side, giving a little extra strength in case you use it as a pry bar (as I have seen others do on video reviews).

Some other hard use folders only have the thumb stud contact the Ti scale, with the other scale being 100% G10.
 
THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT RESPONSES, ESPECIALLY POWER NOODLES EXPLANATION OF THE SR71 BLACKBIRD AND TITANIUM LINER LOCKS :confused: BUT IT STILL HASN'T ANSWERED MY MAIN QUESTION.
IS THE HANDLE ON THE LINER LOCK SIDE ONE PIECE OF TITANIUM WITH NO LINER?. AND IF SO, WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES OF THIS SET UP...WHY NOT USE TITANIUM ON BOTH SCALES, PROBABLY COST RIGHT!.....DON'T GET ME WRONG, IM NOT CRITICIZING THIS KNIFE AT ALL.
IM JUST TRYING TO LEARN A LITTLE ABOUT KNIFE CONSTRUCTION AND CURRENT WISDOM IN THIS FIELD....THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY ADVICE
TOM C
 
Yep - I'm looking at mine right now, and the frame lock side is titanium and titanium only. The other side is a g10 scale over what appears to be a thin steel liner.

IMHO the reason why titanium isn't used on both sides is probably cost - and maybe because using g10 on the opposing side seems to be the trend in a lot of knife making now.

Personally I do not mind the g10 - especially if done right. The color choices are many, and I have no complaints about the performance g10 offers.

It also offers a different tactile experience - even though the titanium on my 0301 is 3D textured like the g10 is, the feel in the hand is different.

Titanium is not considered a "rare" material, but I hear the military / military suppliers buy it up in large quantities - maybe another reason why you don't find too many knife makers using it on both sides?
 
ideal25 said:
THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT RESPONSES, ESPECIALLY POWER NOODLES EXPLANATION OF THE SR71 BLACKBIRD AND TITANIUM LINER LOCKS :confused: BUT IT STILL HASN'T ANSWERED MY MAIN QUESTION.
IS THE HANDLE ON THE LINER LOCK SIDE ONE PIECE OF TITANIUM WITH NO LINER?. AND IF SO, WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES OF THIS SET UP...WHY NOT USE TITANIUM ON BOTH SCALES, PROBABLY COST RIGHT!.....DON'T GET ME WRONG, IM NOT CRITICIZING THIS KNIFE AT ALL.
IM JUST TRYING TO LEARN A LITTLE ABOUT KNIFE CONSTRUCTION AND CURRENT WISDOM IN THIS FIELD....THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY ADVICE
TOM C
Click to expand...

The entire lock side is titanium. Its been given some texture and a color is all. If you are speaking of the ZT301 its a titanium frame lock meaning no scale is on the lock side. The 302 is made just like it only a different color scheme was used. The scale is over the liner on the non lock side. Why Kershaw elected to use stainless steel on the non lock side is something you'd have to ask them. I don't know why they did this. Emerson does this also on all their liner locks and have done it now since sometime in 2007. I don't like it but its what they do. I do believe at least that Kershaw's stainless liner is hardened stainless and not a 300 series type steel though.

I've been told by several owners of that ZT knife that they have taken the non lock side scale off and replaced the handle back on without the liner to reduce the weight of the knife. I've never tried it, and you'll loose the assisted opening to do that but I can see where it would reduce weight some.

Titanium has a tendency to gall or stick both to itself and to dissimilar metals so it could be that for the torsion spring maybe stainless just works better for the assisted opening. I really don't know if it is cost related. Stainless is certainly cheaper than titanium so that may be behind it also. Strength is not a factor. In fact that steel liner is very strong. No worries there at all.

STR
 
It's even possible to polish off the coloring leaving bare metal underneath. The coating is just for show as titanium is very corrosion resistant.

I lightly polished the peaks on this knife for a cool contrast.
82f0a6a9e22e42f9ad5fc29880fbb5f4.1600x1200.jpg


Phillip

p.s. I don't think that titanium would gall if used by the torsion bar. Kershaw used it for both the Tyrade and Ti leek and it worked fine. I personally don't mind the choice of steel for the liner.
 
Phillip Dobson said:
It's even possible to polish off the coloring leaving bare metal underneath. The coating is just for show as titanium is very corrosion resistant.

I lightly polished the peaks on this knife for a cool contrast.
82f0a6a9e22e42f9ad5fc29880fbb5f4.1600x1200.jpg


Phillip

p.s. I don't think that titanium would gall if used by the torsion bar. Kershaw used it for both the Tyrade and Ti leek and it worked fine. I personally don't mind the choice of steel for the liner.
Click to expand...

I don't really believe that either. Just threw it out there as a possibility. Nice job on your folder. Dan Koster has one of those but he has the 301 he did over also. Is yours the 0200? It looks like it may be from the angle but its hard to tell? They are awesome folding knives too. I gave my last one to my son. He really likes it a lot and carries it quite a bit he said.

STR
 
This knife was a customer's brainchild. Tom Krein did the blade work and I did the handle work. It also has a nice, fitted belt sheath.

d8c79ee480e64003afec86388be4a6da.1600x1200.jpg
 
Nice work!

My entry - and nearly an exit - into Ti handled knives was via the Buck 560XLT - essentially a fg 110 with a Ti handle (Mine even has a 110 blade!). Closeout priced, it was worth the $25 paid for it - as a novelty. The axis bore galled and still drags.

I have since bought excellent Ti frame-locks, from the Buck 172 TNT to the B-M 630/635 Skirmish/mini-Skirmish and 760BK L-Ti to the Kershaw 1725SG2, a JYDII - even the recent blemished $79 variant I bought is a keeper there. I can only assume that Kershaw elected to not come out with a utilitarian S30V/Ti JYDII production version, like the SG2 beauty, to keep the ZT line for such. Really, the 1725SG2, my limited production variant and blemished version alike, are fine examples of what a company can produce with Ti - as is the Buck 172 with it's S30V blade. I shouldn't have to mention the Benchmades - they are a known quantity. The Skirmish line would sell today, I bet.

My sole Ti component in a firearm is the cylinder in my .44 S&W Special S&W 296 AirLite Ti. It's picky nature - especially the extreme care in cleaning - make it a PITA compared to steel - I am probably just spoiled. Still, there is a ~40% weight savings vs the same size/strength steel - making the 2.5" hammerless 5-shot .44 Special a viable pocket piece at 19.7 oz. Interestingly, S&W in recent years dropped the Ti - went to steel - on many of their once Ti-cylindered revolvers. Of course, the price still went up...

Ti isn't perfect for everything. A CRK Sebenza is a great use of it, of course. I am sure our A10 pilots appreciate sitting in a armor tub made of it as well.

My vote for the Ti framelock on one side and a SS/G10 scale on the other is - a trend. Watch knife intro's - tell me folks don't follow each other with 'similar' construction - whatever the market demands. Me, I like Ti - on both sides. Still, somewhere there is a new B-M 755 with my name on it - that 'trend' again!

Stainz
 
powernoodle said:
They put the titanium on there for a reason, you know. Lets say you are piloting an SR-71 Blackbird spy plane at 70,000 feet and your starboard Pratt & Whitney J58-P4 engine is struck by a Russian surface to air missile. If you have to eject, your body will soon reach a speed of 18,000 mph as you rocket back into the upper troposphere. You can't deploy your chute at that altitude because there is simply no air up there. That speed creates friction, and heats things up. Let say you deploy your chute at 6,000 feet or so, and its gets tangled in the drogue. You have to use your ZT301 to cut the chute free so you can deploy the backup chute. If that lock were not made of titanium, it would have overheated from the high velocity descent and you would not be able to hold it while you cut away your primary chute. This has happened to me at least 3 times, so I know what I'm talking about.

So, they don't put that titanium on there just for giggles, you know. It serves a purpose.
Click to expand...

Haaaaaaaa, just about shot my OJ out my nose !!! :D Too funny :thumbup::thumbup:
 
STR said:
I don't really believe that either. Just threw it out there as a possibility. Nice job on your folder. Dan Koster has one of those but he has the 301 he did over also. Is yours the 0200? It looks like it may be from the angle but its hard to tell? They are awesome folding knives too. I gave my last one to my son. He really likes it a lot and carries it quite a bit he said.STR
Click to expand...

82f0a6a9e22e42f9ad5fc29880fbb5f4.1600x1200.jpg


Hey, I recognize that.:D

I call it a ZT0301 DAK Edition.

- Dobson
- Altsman(me)
- Krein

I posted pics of the knife after I had Tom Krein re-profile the blade.

Only got to fondle it a few days before I sent it to Phillip Dobson for some of his sweet scale work. After seeing a cool pic(by Mr. Clean) of a DGG SNG I thought the ZT could use some Ti work. Just enough to show some metal under the black coating.

I think it worked well with the Ruby Red G-10.

Overall, it was a fun project coming up with ideas and having two skilled craftsmen work on it. Hardly resembles an 0301 anymore but its still a cool and beefy piece.

Next, is cleaning up the pivot nut and maybe grooving the G-10 some.
 
Well, I love the new sleeker look in the present incarnation and the red looks pretty snazzy! Top shelf work for all involved. :thumbup:

STR
 
Just an FYI, but the liner under the G10 is titanium also.

Phillip, your work rocks! :thumbup:
 
SPXTrader said:
Just an FYI, but the liner under the G10 is titanium also.

Phillip, your work rocks! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

The liner under what G10 on what knife the factory one or are you talking about the newly pimped one? Not following you. I ask because I took a magnet to one of my factory ZT's and the magnet stuck on the non lock side.

STR
 
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