Sharpening a 3" Slicer - Let's talk about angles

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Maprik said:
I got the WEPS today and I just spent the past hour sharpening my first knife to hair shaving sharpness. An old Henkel Chef's knife that we haven't used in years. Now it's the sharpest knife in the drawer. After about 15-20 minutes I totally got the two handed sweeping thing down! I really really really enjoy this and talk about easier than the edge pro!! My stones top at 1000 and I see why I need to go higher. Still seeing fine scratches on the blade edge. Tomorrow I will go and buy some wet/dry grits up to 2500 if I can find them at HD!!! I've got a couple more kitchen knives to try next... I don't want to get ahead of myself but I feel like I know what I am doing already! This weekend I think I will tackle a user Les George VECP and see if I can get a mirrored 22 degree edge on that. CTS-XHP steel. It'll be good to practice on because I was planning on sending it back to Les at the end of the month anyway for a little pivot work (it's really tight and hard to deploy and the lock-up is really sticky). So if I mess it up he'll fix it.

Question: If my knife is sharp, just not hair shaving sharp anymore, which grit should I start with? No reason to go all the way down to 100 is there?
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Congrats! Glad to hear the excitement, remember to warn the family about the kitchen knife. Please try a non-descript folder next before going to the Big Name knives. As for your sharp ones, touch ups can be anywhere from your 1000 grit for true edge sets all the way down to 400 if it had some hard duty. Your wet/dry (go to an auto parts store) preferably one that caters to Body Shops. Keep in contact!

claycat said:
Edumacational tread. I am currently am on a Sharpmaker but after years of practice I am yet to be able to sharp EVERY knife I own to hair splitting sharpness but I would like to.
The 30 and 40 degrees settings on the Sharpmaker, is that inclusive?
I have Hinderer, JWS, RJ Martin, Spydies, BM's and my EDC is a CS Voyager and BM Mini Ritter.

I am gathering that Wicked Edge is the Gold standard for sharpening systems?

Thanks for starting this thread.
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Yes those are inclusive measurements. The SharpMaker is a good piece of equipment and one I still use, it sits next to my WEPS which IMO is in fact the Gold Standard.
You will get good results (working edge) with the SM but never to splitting a human hair.
Splitting hair (while considered a Hobby for Lawyers) is really only "Fun" don't get to hung up on that as a litmus test for your EDC blades.
 
I've been sharpening for 2 hours now. 3 kitchen knives, an old Gerber folder that's a toolbox junker (and now razor sharp) and I just couldn't wait. It's so much fun and such an easy and meditative thing to do I just had to tackle my VECP which couldn't even cut cleanly through paper (ripping rather than cutting). 30 minutes later....


Untitled by GermoneGold, on Flickr

I was very dissappointed with myself when I tried to learn the Edge Pro Apex. I just couldn't do it and I dulled a knife more than I sharpened it. This is the first time I've ever been able to sharpen my own knife to this level of razor sharpness. Next is mirror polishing. I am HOOKED. By the way, I bought the Field kit which is great - just clamps on to the edge of my desk. I ordered ceramics and kangaroo strops tonight....

I'm still too nervous to attempt my XM. Maybe in a few days after I sharpen some of my other knives....
 
RubiconSS said:
Splitting hair (while considered a Hobby for Lawyers) is really only "Fun" don't get to hung up on that as a litmus test for your EDC blades.
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+1

I have a Wicked Edge Pro with ceramics and 1/.5 micron strops and sharpened some knives so they could split hair, that's maybe a cool thing to see but I actually prefer a bit of a toothy edge.

Even on the Sharpmakers UF ceramics I loose the bite that I like to have on my knives, so after some experimenting I found out that a couple of strokes on leather with black compound brings back the bite again.

It all depends what you use your knives for of course.
 
emel said:
+1

I have a Wicked Edge Pro with ceramics and 1/.5 micron strops and sharpened some knives so they could split hair, that's maybe a cool thing to see but I actually prefer a bit of a toothy edge.

Even on the Sharpmakers UF ceramics I loose the bite that I like to have on my knives, so after some experimenting I found out that a couple of strokes on leather with black compound brings back the bite again.

It all depends what you use your knives for of course.
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I was just thinking about this today. A mirror edge looks great and is extremely Sharp but a toothy edge seems to actually cut/slice better.
 
Yes. As I mentioned in Post#14 the issue of toothy -vs- smooth stropped edge is a hotly debated one.
I have some knives one way and some the other. Being as this is the Hinderer Forum..... I will say, I do not "over do" my XM edges. They are scarey sharp and able to easily slice through yellow page, newsprint and bond BUT the edges last and last and yes, easily send me looking for band-aids.
There are some out there that are not happy until they can push cut toilet paper. Why they need to cut their toilet paper is beyond me - I actually need full sheets for my purpose:eek: but anyway.
IF someone wants to sharpen to hair whittling or TP push cutting - I advise doing so with a lesser knife than the XM.
 
Well having done the VECP at 22* I can now say with knowledge that i don't need to go any more acute. 22 cuts like a laser when it's sharp! And for my general every day cutting needs that's perfect. I think what I have right now on the VECP is very toothy and my XM is very smooth. It's still very sharp... Maybe I just keep them that way? Anyway, the purpose of my original post has been answered!!!! 22 degrees is an excellent angle and there's no reason to go less!!!!
 
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Maprik said:
I got the WEPS today and I just spent the past hour sharpening my first knife to hair shaving sharpness. An old Henkel Chef's knife that we haven't used in years. Now it's the sharpest knife in the drawer. After about 15-20 minutes I totally got the two handed sweeping thing down! I really really really enjoy this and talk about easier than the edge pro!! My stones top at 1000 and I see why I need to go higher. Still seeing fine scratches on the blade edge. Tomorrow I will go and buy some wet/dry grits up to 2500 if I can find them at HD!!! I've got a couple more kitchen knives to try next... I don't want to get ahead of myself but I feel like I know what I am doing already! This weekend I think I will tackle a user Les George VECP and see if I can get a mirrored 22 degree edge on that. CTS-XHP steel. It'll be good to practice on because I was planning on sending it back to Les at the end of the month anyway for a little pivot work (it's really tight and hard to deploy and the lock-up is really sticky). So if I mess it up he'll fix it.

Question: If my knife is sharp, just not hair shaving sharp anymore, which grit should I start with? No reason to go all the way down to 100 is there?
Click to expand...

I seldom have to go below 800 when I am touching up my xm's. I think you will love the wet/dry paper. I have 1500/2000/2500 it puts a nice mirror finish. I am looking for 3000 or higher. Best place to get it I have found is auto paint supply houses. Good luck and show some pictures when you are done.
 
Will do! Quick question though. One of the knives I tried sharpening today I couldn't do because the blade is not tall enough. In other words, the stones hit the edge of the angle on the clamp before they can touch the edge of the blade. What do you do about that? Because it seems that the height of my 3" XM is also short and the stones might not be able to touch the edge....
 
Maprik said:
Will do! Quick question though. One of the knives I tried sharpening today I couldn't do because the blade is not tall enough. In other words, the stones hit the edge of the angle on the clamp before they can touch the edge of the blade. What do you do about that? Because it seems that the height of my 3" XM is also short and the stones might not be able to touch the edge....
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Use the "Top holes" you should be fine. (Plenty of clamping power)
 
Birdhunter1220 said:
I seldom have to go below 800 when I am touching up my xm's. I think you will love the wet/dry paper. I have 1500/2000/2500 it puts a nice mirror finish. I am looking for 3000 or higher. Best place to get it I have found is auto paint supply houses. Good luck and show some pictures when you are done.
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Micromesh goes from 1500 - 12,000 grit and is washable.

I generally have 19deg each side for everything except machetes/choppers. Final polish depends on the steel.
 
Sorry Map, thought you had the same set-up as me. Clay is very responsive, let us know how it goes.
 
RubiconSS said:
IF someone wants to sharpen to hair whittling or TP push cutting - I advise doing so with a lesser knife than the XM.
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I don't own one of Ricks knives but I've spent the last week experimenting with my new ZT561 blade.I've come to the exact same conclusion as Rubicon.Being as they're very similar in design,just thought I'd weigh in.
 
Found this thread and just thought I'd chime in. I generally go as low in angle as I can without seing damage. I'm rebeveling my Parker trapper to 7 degrees per side (dps). Its been at 12 dps with a 15 dps microbevel for a while with no damage. I have a large yard knife/chopper that I run at just less than 20 dps. So far its cut everything from wood to soup cans without chipping or denting. A dedicated slicer like you describe should handle much lower angles than 22 dps. However, that kind of rebeveling takes a lot of time, so you would have to decide if its worth the effort.

I'll also have to disagree with the kind of edge the Sharpmaker can give. You can indeed split hairs with an edge off the standard fine white triangles.
 
Not a problem, disagreeing makes the world go around. The SharpMaker is a fine tool. I merely comment on experiences I have first hand knowlege of and have always been complimentary of the SM. Have I ever gotten an edge on a tactical style folder that would whittle a human hair with a standard SM? No.
If you have and that is something you like to do - that is great.
As for taking a Hinderer XM anywhere near 12-15 * per/side again we can agree to disagree. Not sure how many XM's you own/use and subject to that sharpening metodology.
I did mention I thought a slicer grind could go to 20* if the owner saw fit and needs dictated but, I cautioned that taking metal off is an irreversable process and one that should be well considered.
 
Oh sure, those bevel angles are not appropriate for every knife. Even at 7 dps, the edge bevel on my trapper clip blade is still quite narrow. For the type of use the OP described, I think a 12/15 edge/microbevel would hold up, but the bevel might be very wide and take a long time to do. Maybe next time he sharpens it, just lower the angle to 20 and see how he likes it. The wicked edge allows for that kind of control. Lowering the edge angle a little at a time allow the user to see when they want to stop for whatever reason. I dropped my chopper down to 15 dps once and started seeing light damage, so I went back to 20 on the next sharpening. Since I was increasing the edge angle, this was very quick, but I do now have a slightly visible secondary edge bevel. This knife sees real abuse, digging, prying and such, so a perfect bevel is not on my to do list.
 
Sounds like your going to be cutting some rough stuff & you want something sharp & durable. What I've been doing recently is trying to sharpen knives on the WEPS to the most obtuse angle I can & still have a Hair Whittling sharp edge. I'm at 27* per side. It whittles hair easily & has enough steel behind the edge to be very durable & could not possibly chip or roll.
The lower you go in angle I think makes touching up easier. If you however are wanting the sharpest & easiest to strop back to sharp I wouldnt feel bad at all recommending you sharpen it at 15* or 17* per side. The Duratech 20CV is a high end steel & I've not had any chips cutting cardboard, thick plastic fiberglass straps, whittling wood. I trust all the steel choices that Hinderer uses to a 30* inclusive bevel, they use a higher HRC & edge retention holds up well. Some are also sharpened at 15* with a 25* microbevel for easy slicing but having the MB ensures that when I cut something ruff it won't roll or chip & stropping while at work is easy. For me it's harder to strop a 30* angle than a 15* because you have to hold the blade at just the right angle with a small bevel to work with. If I'm at home on the WEPS is a different story though.
 
That's pretty interesting. Do you have any plans to go higher than 27 degrees, or have you tried and it wouldn't pass the cutting test? I'm generally of the opposite mind, but my knives are not meant for the kind of rough treatment that Hinderer's are geared toward, based on my perusal of the XM web page. I don't have any XM's, though the tip Spanto grind is interesting. Have you tried cutting rope with the edges at various edge angles to compare how much cutting effort is needed at each angle?
 
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