Spanish flea market finds & other stuff that might be of interest!

[Ernest DuBois]

Whenever I read about people asking for a knife for "batoning" I think of a Hacking knife / Kapmes, they are literally made for it!

( I don't like the use of baton & batoning, it's splitting or cleaving, a baton is what you hit the cutter with! It's funny how a word catches on & repeated so much it changes the language so I guess it's here to stay.....).

So, for hacking hard putty I'm using a tiny hammer, maybe even the glass setting hammer, why not, since it remains a delicate operation if it's salvaging glass that's the object. While not the intended use, a kapmes makes a serviceable froe on a small scale and in that case, for some reason I'll use a rawhide mallet though yes, a baton would do but always seemed an overkill.

Baton to me is first and foremost the second half of a kind of wall sheathing, the first half being, board.

I would just caution you to wear an N95 mask when removing old glazing putty unless you know that it’s modern asbestos free putty. The old putties were full of asbestos and it becomes very friable when old and hard.

The only glass putty I know is linseed oil and lime mixed up. It's about the only use I ever have for boiled linseed oil, if'n even then.

 

[I'mSoSharp]

The only glass putty I know is linseed oil and lime mixed up.

Interesting, I didn't know the traditional recipe.

For the hewing head handle I found a piece of ash I've had drying a few years, a thick branch with a nice gentle curve.....

As far as I got with the hatchet.

Then a rasp got it fitted.

I've fitted the head first rather than making the handle & then trying to get the offset right without messing the whole thing up & swearing........
This way I can concentrate on getting a good fit on the head & have a bit of leeway on the angle of the offset, offset being a new take for me.
So far so good.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

I can't make out from the shots where you're going with the curves so it'll be interesting to see when you get there. Some like more, some less figure. Do you get Celtus australius, European nettlewood, where you are?

I've always been happy with that putty self-made, (use good fresh or properly put up lime), or sometimes I can find the real stuff but it gets more and more difficult. In Spain though you can surely get good lime if you are careful. They have kept the practice and use intact there.

 

[I'mSoSharp]

Got a little more shaping done today with the small hatchet, should get it finished tomorrow.

I had to look up Nettlewood E Ernest DuBois , I'm not aware of it, I don't know any tree here that has dark berries, that doesn't mean it isn't here.....
In the countryside here there are many remains of "cal hornos" or lime ovens where they used to fire rocks to make them crumble, "Cal" is a word used for lime & used to be a name for the white paint every house was painted with, often every spring inside to paint over the black patches and water marks of winter rain!

Some stuff that turned up today.

The smallest adze (for earth) I've seen & what I thought was a Stone Mason's chisel but now believe is a calking iron for wooden boats, the other tool I think is for opening covers that have a hole that it goes into......

Ouite pleased with this (I need another Billhook ), it's a Leborgne but looks like a Rinaldi, wonder if it's made by them as Leborgne's site call it an Italian brush hook and say it's assembled in France, not made....... Any idea FortyTwoBlades ?

 

[rjdankert]

Bob

 

[Ernest DuBois]

I don't add my version as a presentation of the right way, that would be going to far, just showing how it's turned out for me in a few instances.

Hard to really get at what's going on in these pictures with all the angels involved but I'll say the one has more sweep than t'other. That one maybe even to excess which translated to a smaller range of the handle getting used most times while giving a broader range of options. Practically, I personally go for the axe that's got the less off-axis configuration. But I like both. These having a sweep while I'd call your handle articulated since it goes out then comes back to more or less in-line. Since I think to a degree we can become used to using either, it becomes an aesthetic choice more than anything 'sept maybe what material you choose. I do like the whole concept of asymmetry in these axes though it'd be beyond boring to get all analytical on that count.

I didn't know the Spanish word was Cal, only that all the German words, Danish, German, Dutch and so on and so on, are basically kalk and French chaux, so all pretty similar and nothing resembling the English. Well actually since its all about one or the other forms of calcium the non-English seem a bit closer to describing what's going on. Pretty clear the English comes from limestone which of course is only one source for getting your calciumoxide by the process more or less demoed in the film posted over by Bob.

And by coincidence, it was only last week that I've freshly whitewashed my stall with calciumoxide, kalk or lime, take your pick.

 

[chopperknob]

I'mSoSharp , I have spent a lovely morning reading your entire thread ! I really appreciate the effort you've gone to in creating this resource, retrieving lost photos and generally saving all these treasures you find ! I am based in France and see a LOT of old axe heads at the Brocantes and Vide-greniers we have here, you could buy them by the ton or tonne !

 

[I'mSoSharp]

Thanks rjdankert for the video, that's in the north of Spain but pretty much the same as what used to happen here in the south. I believe the stone ovens here used to be built up to a pointed closed top with a chimney.

These having a sweep while I'd call your handle articulated since it goes out then comes back to more or less in-line. Since I think to a degree we can become used to using either, it becomes an aesthetic choice more than anything 'sept maybe what material you choose. I do like the whole concept of asymmetry in these axes though it'd be beyond boring to get all analytical on that count.

Thank you for the images of you lovely axes. I have no experience using a hewing hatchet so the shape I've arrived at is purely guesswork, my thinking was to try & keep the hand in the same plane as the cutting edge as much as possible but of course that could be of no importance whatsoever, at the other extreme is an adze!
I also love the asymmetric aspect of making this hatchet, there's something very different about having freedom from symmetry that's made it fun.
Got the handle smoothed & wedged up today.

Now I will give it a final edge, and try it out, I expect it to cut when the flat side is about 10 ~ 15 degrees from the surface to be shaved...... Do you think that sounds correct?

Is painting your stall with lime/ cal for light, for protection (as I understand it's good preservative) or for both?

I'mSoSharp , I have spent a lovely morning reading your entire thread ! I really appreciate the effort you've gone to in creating this resource, retrieving lost photos and generally saving all these treasures you find ! I am based in France and see a LOT of old axe heads at the Brocantes and Vide-greniers we have here, you could buy them by the ton or tonne !

Thank you for such a nice comment, it makes me happy that you enjoyed reading the thread and makes it worthwhile. Sometimes I wonder if it goes a bit too far "off topic" for an axe & hatchet forum but I always hope it's of interest.
Looks like I'll be visiting France to collect my "ton" of rusty old axe heads then! Sounds great
Please, post some images if you have the time.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

That's real impressive ISS, the kind of figure that comes out of an intact stick like that. This reminds me of some Asian round wood columns from whole sections planed up pristinely. You've got yourself a looker that's for sure, (but hopefully that and something more when you get round to putting it to use.

Now I will give it a final edge, and try it out, I expect it to cut when the flat side is about 10 ~ 15 degrees from the surface to be shaved...... Do you think that sounds correct?

I'm not exactly sure of the context you have in mind for these cuts. Remember the edge will tend to go inward and it takes an effort to counter this, (our handy pivot action off the apex of that curve on the back). Remember too, it's a good pairing tool.

Is painting your stall with lime/ cal for light, for protection (as I understand it's good preservative) or for both?

First of all I like the way it helps make the stall look a bit neat and clean. After a year it gets pretty grungy. It is dark and this brightens it up for a while in there and in fact, lime's A disinfectant which doesn't hurt 'specially in a chicken coop.


It may be as you say that these lime kilns are built with a cone top but more often than not they were open pits filled to the brim with fuel which would sink in as it was consumed and the legend is that often the watchers who were tending for some days constantly would fall asleep at the rim and, of course, roll in there from time to time, ha, ha, ha, as if we don't understand why that story might've persisted.

Btw, does anybody notice a new concept on the forum? Well, it's lucky that mostly I make use of an outdated pad computer with no capabilities for picking up this advertising nonsense, thanks god.

 

[I'mSoSharp]

It may be as you say that these lime kilns are built with a cone top but more often than not they were open pits filled to the brim with fuel which would sink in as it was consumed and the legend is that often the watchers who were tending for some days constantly would fall asleep at the rim and, of course, roll in there from time to time, ha, ha, ha, as if we don't understand why that story might've persisted.

Obviously like everything these things must have varied from region to region & probably different over very small distances. There are many remains of them here that are just rock lined holes in the ground or in a hillside often filled with the fallen in rocks from what would have been higher walls or a chimney, someone told me years ago they had tops on them.
That's a funny story of sleeping near them!

It appears there were many shapes, below are photos of some impressive Spanish "Hornos de cal".

 

[I'mSoSharp]

Hard to really get at what's going on in these pictures

I'm a bit slow here, but I assume you are left handed? Or else ambidextrous.....

 

[Square_peg]

Baton to me is first and foremost the second half of a kind of wall sheathing, the first half being, board.

We call that board and batten.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

We call that board and batten.

So right S_p. Damn these homophones.

Sorry for the vertigo ISS, but I am only left.

That you are really there in the midst of a lime culture is clear. In Holland also these above ground lime kilns are about all that exists since it'd've been impractical making pits in such flat ground.

I guess the distinction, apart from geography, may be something like scale, small and local v capitalized and industrial.

I think you'll find that working at zero degrees or as close to it as practical, and in fact eventually even at a negative angle will be what you are after and is compatible to side-axe work.

 

[I'mSoSharp]

We call that board and batten.

Seeing as you've brought it up
I was going to start by saying I don't want to be pedantic, but what the heck, I'm pedantic and proud, there's nothing wrong with being pedantic
The batoning thing gets my back up because it seems like a new word that doesn't really work, here's some examples ~

We chop wood with an axe & call it chopping........................ Not "Axing"
We split kindling wood with a hatchet & call it splitting......... Not "hatcheting"
We build a wall with a trowel & call it building......... Not "troweling"
We dig a hole with a spade & call it digging........... Not "spading"

So WHY when we split wood with a "baton" do we call it "batoning"? It's very clearly "splitting" or "splitting with a baton".........
And while I'm at it , these below were the only baton's I knew of before "bushcraft"*.


Look at this lady Batoning.........


* Don't get me started on "Bushcraft" another new word unless you're from Downunder, we don't have any "bush" in Europe, not sure you do in the US either?........ But I know it's all wasted breath, or ink, or internetty stuff... this is how language evolves for better or worse.

I've had a lay down now & I'm feeling better

That's a very fine kiln E Ernest DuBois . Another thing occurred to me regarding this area is that having the kiln covered might help control the sparks & embers as most of the kilns here are in big fire risk areas, setting the area on fire that you depend on wouldn't have been a good idea!

I think you'll find that working at zero degrees or as close to it as practical, and in fact eventually even at a negative angle will be what you are after and is compatible to side-axe work.

Thanks, that's helpful as I'll give it a final sharpening soon, as I've said it is very slightly convex at the moment, if I lay it on a flat surface & press the edge down the poll lifts about 10mm so I'm guessing that's close to how it should be, I can always flatten it a bit more if needs be.

 

[I'mSoSharp]

I promise no more images of this hatchet after these...

.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Your self satisfaction both understandable and justified . Not to mention one of the most content relevant entries of your long long thread. Congratulation on both counts.

Was it in a consciousness of the situation's made you extend the wood up through the eye and cut it off straight across like that rather that following the outline of the upper lug, or more a love of the practical?

Ps

* Don't get me started on "Bushcraft" another new word unless you're from Downunder, we don't have any "bush" in Europe, not sure you do in the US either?

I can confirm it. Coming from USA, I never heard about bush like that until I lived for a few years in Australia.Thanks for such scrupulous attention to detail. Double thumbs up

 

[I'mSoSharp]

Was it in a consciousness of the situation's made you extend the wood up through the eye and cut it off straight across like that rather that following the outline of the upper lug, or more a love of the practical?

Just about everything I've ever fitted a handle to I've shaped to fit the shape of the head, on this hatchet without thinking I left it square like that, no reason it's just how it happened...

 

[I'mSoSharp]

Way back in post #416 this Elwell Billhook turned up minus it's handle.

I had planned to use a piece of Cork (Holm) Oak so took it, Billhook & tools round to a friends house I'm looking after so I had something to occupy me on the evening, once I'd got a rough shape carved out of the Oak I decided I wasn't happy with it, it had a part that was very crumbly, I needed another piece of wood........
So I started looking round the garden & found a dry branch under a Pepper tree, haha

Above, the Oak I didn't use in the middle & the cut down branch, the handle came off the right hand end.
Needs finishing now but it's looking promising, now I've been able to Google Pepper tree wood the opinions are varied, often not so positive

But it's looking interesting so far!

 

[I'mSoSharp]

Life is strange sometimes, after all the effort to make the Hewing hatchet (which of course I hated...) because I never see one for sale, the very first time I visit a Flea market after making it........

Unbelievable, it had come from Germany with a dealer who had a box full of "heavy metal" he wanted rid of so I got it for what I consider a good price. Haven't found a makers mark.... yet.. Very happy with this
Some more stuff.....

I've been looking for a paper guillotine for a friend for years, they tend to be very expensive so today when I saw this one at the top minus it's woodwork I jumped at it especially seeing as the edges haven't been abused.......

A very strange adze/ hammer, I thought it was for gardening but I'm really not sure, quite a heavy casting.

Sometimes there are things you can only appreciate by holding them, it was only when I got home and slid the loose head in place on this lovely old hammer that I realised it had an orientation, difficult to see in the image but it is worn where a hand has used it for countless hours. . When you hold it your hand fits!

.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

The double chamber scoop, I've seen the form before recently on the link posted in my latest entry from the Axe + thread going to the Norwegian blacksmith's site. I have no idea of the purpose.