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- Thread starter NickWheeler
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
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- 2,525
Nick,
Very informative post. Very easy to follow and understand. I still don't think I would ever be able to pull it off.
Thanks so much for sharing.
Robert
Very informative post. Very easy to follow and understand. I still don't think I would ever be able to pull it off.
Thanks so much for sharing.
Robert
- Joined
- Dec 3, 1999
- Messages
- 9,437
Robert-
You can do it!
Just take the milk jug, and cut the top off first, then slice down the side... Oh wait...
Seriously though, I have no doubt that you can do any of this knife making stuff that you wanna do. I know you got skillz my friend! As far as the Black Ice goes--- it is very high quality paper! But it doesn't work any better while handsanding for me than Rhynowet, yet it costs like 3 times as much. It definitely does not hold up on the 9" disc like the Rhynowet does.
I'm glad some of you fellas liked this.
Even though it's kind of a PITA to do this sort of stuff and there's inevitably somebody grumbling about how dumb and backwards my approach is.... at the end of the day I really enjoy sharing stuff like this.After looking back over my pictures and trying to approach the thread like I was reading something that somebody else posted (which is pretty hard to do, since I know what I mean in each picture/caption).... It occurred to me there might be some questions. Like:
"What is that mini square? Where did you get it?"
It's a very thin square that is totally useless in many applications, but works GREAT for things like lay-out lines on a guard face. I made it.
"But I don't have a mill."
I didn't use one. I scribed the profile, cut it close to the lines with the bandsaw, ground closer to the lines with the KMG, then trued everything up with 320X sandpaper wrapped around a G10 sanding stick. I used a 1-2-3 block and back light to check for square. It takes about 10 minutes total to make one. Or 15 if you're slow like me.
:foot:"Why didn't you use a rotary table on the milling machine?"
Because I didn't make a round face, I made sort of an elongated arc.
"Do I HAVE to use Red Dykem?"
Yes.
"You said the guard width should match the ricasso width, you laid out the lines with a height gauge... but your guard looks wider in the last pic than the ricasso. What up with that?"
It IS wider. I didn't take the width down TO the lines. I leave a little meat there for shaping later.
"The guard looks clunky, why is it so fat and stuff?"
It is very fat in the last couple photos. I still had to lay-out the side profile and grind it to shape. Then about 1/4 of the remaining 416 will get filed off with a 3/8" round file.
"Why didn't you shape the guard first?"
Because I'm "making parts for parts." If you shape a guard, and THEN try to put the slot in it, you are making life 1,300 times more difficult. That's like building a house on the ground and then trying to build a foundation under it. Having an order to your procedures is very important (in any part of building anything!).
Okay, that's it for now. I may find something else to add later.... we'll see.
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- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 2,525
Robert-
You can do it!
"Do I HAVE to use Red Dykem?"
Yes.
OK, now I understand. I have been using Blue Dykem all this time. No wonder I never felt like I could do it. I'm changing to red folks. Expect great and wonderful things in the future from "Geezer Productions, LLC".
Seriously, I really appreciate the fact that you are willing to share how you do things. I know that there are more ways than one to achieve the end results, however, it is always refreshing to see how someone else reaches home plate.
Robert
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
- 3,375
His PP addy is Merckman99@yahoo.com. LOL Funds on the way. Thankfully I don't have to pay him for the true value of all the info he has gave me.
Barry Clodfelter
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- May 29, 2007
- Messages
- 579
No wonder I can't get those kind of results. I have been using blue dykem or a black sharpie. Maye a red sharpie would work??
- Joined
- Dec 3, 1999
- Messages
- 9,437
Man, things travel fast on this forum! I've got a couple shots to add and found this was already back on page 4.
Here are a couple more tips.....
When you want to sand/lap two mating surfaces so they fit up TIGHT (like the handle to guard junction) you don't want to be sanding a whole bunch of extra surface area. Essentially, the larger a surface, the harder it is to get it all FLAT.
After you cut the front end of a handle block to the angle you want, then you will need to get that area flat. Rather than sanding the whole face (a portion of which will not be part of the knife) we stay at the bandsaw for 45 seconds... Just use the saw to cut in a little "shelf" on either side of where the handle width will be. We don't want to cut right to the lines, leave yourself a little extra.
This ridiculously simple step will make sanding/lapping the face of the block much faster and easier!!!
This next idea is something that I have been thinking about for YEARS, but just finally took the time to try the other day. If you're going to sand something FLAT by hand, there is no easier way, IMHO, to do it than with a surface plate and sand paper.
But how do you hold the paper to the granite? There are probably 100 ways... Some of the techniques I have used:
-Apply PSA paper to the granite---it's quick, easy, works well, but can be a royal PITA when you go to take the paper off, and also limits you to the grits you have in PSA paper.
-Put spray glue or feathering disc adhesive on the paper--- works pretty easy, but IME you have to wait for the glue to get tacky before sticking it down, or it will slide around on the granite, it can be a PITA to remove.
-Glue something like 120X down to the granite but don't sand on that paper, you use it to grip the backside of the sheets that you put on top of it. This is easy and works well, but it means that base layer is always on the surface. IDK about you, but I get impatient, and end up sanding with that paper. Pretty soon it won't grip any other paper, and you're back to removing/cleaning/re-applying new abrasive.
So enter something like this doo-hicky I threw together. It took a piece of plywood to go under the granite surface plate, a short section of square tubing bolted to the plywood, an el cheap-O drill press clamp, and a fairly beefy chunk of square stock. It took me about 15 minutes to put this together, and man I wish I had done it a LONG TIME AGO!
Throw the paper on the granite, lay the square stock across the end of it, and clamp down on it with the drill press clamp. It holds the paper nice and tight, and it goes down/comes off SUPER dee-duper EASY. (I think this tip is worth at least $7!!! )
In case you hadn't noticed, I use 1-2-3 blocks a lot. I have like 3 sets of them floating around the shop. A sure-fire way to check your handle block for FLAT, is to press it against one of these blocks and then get some light behind it (of course I do not have light behind it in this shot). Plus, I think this photo also helps to show the benefit of knocking off some of the block face with the bandsaw.
Here are a couple more tips.....
When you want to sand/lap two mating surfaces so they fit up TIGHT (like the handle to guard junction) you don't want to be sanding a whole bunch of extra surface area. Essentially, the larger a surface, the harder it is to get it all FLAT.
After you cut the front end of a handle block to the angle you want, then you will need to get that area flat. Rather than sanding the whole face (a portion of which will not be part of the knife) we stay at the bandsaw for 45 seconds... Just use the saw to cut in a little "shelf" on either side of where the handle width will be. We don't want to cut right to the lines, leave yourself a little extra.
This ridiculously simple step will make sanding/lapping the face of the block much faster and easier!!!
This next idea is something that I have been thinking about for YEARS, but just finally took the time to try the other day. If you're going to sand something FLAT by hand, there is no easier way, IMHO, to do it than with a surface plate and sand paper.
But how do you hold the paper to the granite? There are probably 100 ways... Some of the techniques I have used:
-Apply PSA paper to the granite---it's quick, easy, works well, but can be a royal PITA when you go to take the paper off, and also limits you to the grits you have in PSA paper.
-Put spray glue or feathering disc adhesive on the paper--- works pretty easy, but IME you have to wait for the glue to get tacky before sticking it down, or it will slide around on the granite, it can be a PITA to remove.
-Glue something like 120X down to the granite but don't sand on that paper, you use it to grip the backside of the sheets that you put on top of it. This is easy and works well, but it means that base layer is always on the surface. IDK about you, but I get impatient, and end up sanding with that paper. Pretty soon it won't grip any other paper, and you're back to removing/cleaning/re-applying new abrasive.
So enter something like this doo-hicky I threw together. It took a piece of plywood to go under the granite surface plate, a short section of square tubing bolted to the plywood, an el cheap-O drill press clamp, and a fairly beefy chunk of square stock. It took me about 15 minutes to put this together, and man I wish I had done it a LONG TIME AGO!
Throw the paper on the granite, lay the square stock across the end of it, and clamp down on it with the drill press clamp. It holds the paper nice and tight, and it goes down/comes off SUPER dee-duper EASY. (I think this tip is worth at least $7!!!
)
In case you hadn't noticed, I use 1-2-3 blocks a lot. I have like 3 sets of them floating around the shop. A sure-fire way to check your handle block for FLAT, is to press it against one of these blocks and then get some light behind it (of course I do not have light behind it in this shot). Plus, I think this photo also helps to show the benefit of knocking off some of the block face with the bandsaw.
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Erin Burke
KnifeMaker...ish
- Joined
- May 19, 2003
- Messages
- 1,330
Nick... you get another stud-muffin point for that sanding plate clamp. Aweswerm!
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2007
- Messages
- 2,624
The sanding block thing is genius.....who you get that idea from ?
- Joined
- Dec 3, 1999
- Messages
- 9,437
The sanding block thing is genius.....who you get that idea from ?
It was somebody much smarter than me John! He thought of it...
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2002
- Messages
- 3,974
Wow, Nick. I can't believe I missed this thread. You're right, it got buried quickly. Great tips!
Do you have any concern about the loose end of the paper that curls up a bit taking off a bit more on that side of the handle block as it pushes it down flat? Or are you using your thumbs to push it flat as you draw the block across it?
The biggest issue I'm having right now is fitting a guard to the ricasso. I picked up one of Don's handy dandy carbide guides, but I've got an issue: I can't seem to get the end of the ricasso truly flat (leaving tiny gaps under the corners when fitted against a flattened piece of guard stock). I'm actually cutting a bit of an overhang in the end of the ricasso (thinning the tang a bit more than the fit-up edge in the middle of the ricasso) to help with any little blemishes in my hand-filed guard slot. It makes me really wish I had a mini-mill. It seems I can't quite get the sides of the ricasso truly flat with the corners using this type of fit-up. I think I need a new bastard file with sharp corners to get it just right.
--nathan
Do you have any concern about the loose end of the paper that curls up a bit taking off a bit more on that side of the handle block as it pushes it down flat? Or are you using your thumbs to push it flat as you draw the block across it?
The biggest issue I'm having right now is fitting a guard to the ricasso. I picked up one of Don's handy dandy carbide guides, but I've got an issue: I can't seem to get the end of the ricasso truly flat (leaving tiny gaps under the corners when fitted against a flattened piece of guard stock). I'm actually cutting a bit of an overhang in the end of the ricasso (thinning the tang a bit more than the fit-up edge in the middle of the ricasso) to help with any little blemishes in my hand-filed guard slot. It makes me really wish I had a mini-mill
. It seems I can't quite get the sides of the ricasso truly flat with the corners using this type of fit-up. I think I need a new bastard file with sharp corners to get it just right.--nathan
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2005
- Messages
- 9,680
Nick.......................................................... thanks. Nuff said.
You are the epitome of what ST represents, brother. Just don't let it go to your head... remember, you are above arrogance. :thumbup:
You are the epitome of what ST represents, brother. Just don't let it go to your head... remember, you are above arrogance. :thumbup:
- Joined
- Dec 3, 1999
- Messages
- 9,437
I know, right?!?!?.......
Oh wait, what you were saying about stuff going to my head Rick???
LMAO! Thanks Rick!!! Greg, haven't heard from you in a long time bud, I thought maybe you were pissed at me for stealing your respirator... LMAO
You need to come up and visit again sometime!
Nathan--- for some reason I'm not getting my mind wrapped around what you're saying... any chance you could take a pic of what's going on? I'd love to help 'ya out if I can my friend!
***edited to add to my answer to Nathan***
Part of my procrastination for the sanding giz-wiz, was the concern of exactly what you asked... I thought that 1 end of the paper flapping in the wind might screw things up.
But--- it doesn't seem to be an issue. My fingers are calloused/rough enough that I can drag my pinkies ahead of the block... but I don't think it's necessary. I pulled this block (which is Australian Black Mulga from Mark at BurlSource BTW) a few times over the paper and it was dead nuts flat, from front to back. :thumbup:
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