1080 or CPM 154

E

EdgeCraft

Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
122
I've read a lot of posts, but remain confused. I want to make a 3" linerlock folder. I'm new to this. I seems that two steels are being recommended for relative ease of working with good rusults without having high end equipment. 1080 and (possibly)CPM 154. Which would be best to use? I have the equipment to grind, but would only be using a "two brick forge" to heat treat.
The following is what I've gathered I would need to do for 1080. Is this correct? Would the same proceedure be used for CPM 154? (If you recommend it).
1. Heat the steel to 1500F (bright red orange)
and cool to bare hand holding
2. Heat to barely over non-magnetic & cool again
3. Heat to dull black red, just under non-magnetic, cool again
5. Heat to a good red orange 1475F to 1500F
6. Imediately quench in Parks 50, pre heated to 100-110F
7. Temper in a 400 degree oven for 2 hours. Cool to room temp.
8. Repeat #7

I've then read to grind 1st before any heat; and I've read to grind after step #8. Which is it?
Thanks for any help.
 
I'm curious as to why you've selected two steels that are so very different.

I wouldn't try to HT CPM154 in a 2 brick forge. It needs to soak at 1950F for 45 minutes to an hour. You could always send it out for HT.
 
You're good on the 1080 but the CPM154 is a totally different animal.

Edit to add; About gringing, I grind 80% before heat treat and the other 20% after...
 
Thanks. No matter where I looked for information, it was incomplete as to the whole process, thus I picked one steel, CPM 154, that is pointed out as a poor choice for my circumstances. Thanks for the info. Do others agree?
What are opinions on the 1080? Or is there still a better choice? (And is my process for the 1080 OK? And when do you grind?)
I started out with the idea of following the instructions from Bob Terzuola's book on the "Tactical Folding Knife". He uses ATS-34 for the blade, and titanium for the frame and spring. Both seem difficult to work, but he does describe how. I later read that ATS-34 produced discolorations lately. Again confusion on my part, and I'm looking for advice.
Thanks again!
 
They are both great steels. One is a great stainless steel and the other a realy good High carbon steel. the diferance in your case would mean, most heat treaters that you could send the blade to will do CPM154cm / 154cm or ATS-34 (all three of these are very close to being the same steel) and some will not do an oil quenched steel.
You could do the HT your self on the 1080 as you decribed above. But I wouldn't attempt HT'ing the 154cm with out a Kiln or oven as James said it calls for a bit of a soak depending on the size of the blade. I do my silpjoint blades at 1950 for 15 min soak then plate quench.
 
Just send the 154 out for heat treating - you'll be happier with it on a liner lock. Might was well do more than one before you heat treat.
 
Also, best to make some simple fixed blades to learn grinding and heat treating, before jumping into folders. And stick with simple carbon steels like 1080 and 1084. CPM154 and the like, really needs to be sent out for heat treat.
 
Rusty McDonald said:
They are both great steels. One is a great stainless steel and the other a realy good High carbon steel. the diferance in your case would mean, most heat treaters that you could send the blade to will do CPM154cm / 154cm or ATS-34 (all three of these are very close to being the same steel) and some will not do an oil quenched steel.
You could do the HT your self on the 1080 as you decribed above. But I wouldn't attempt HT'ing the 154cm with out a Kiln or oven as James said it calls for a bit of a soak depending on the size of the blade. I do my silpjoint blades at 1950 for 15 min soak then plate quench.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that my grind has to be very even to avoid heat treating failure. Is the risk equal with sending out CPM 154, and doing my own 1080? I do have experience sanding wood to exacting tollerances. Would the CPM 154 yield a superior 3" "tactial" lockback folding knife, given both made well?

With either steel would I use the same steel for blade and frame and spring, or is Bob Teruola's use of titanium for the frame and spring necessary? It seems, through my reading, to not be necessary.
 
EdgeCraft said:
My understanding is that my grind has to be very even to avoid heat treating failure. Is the risk equal with sending out CPM 154, and doing my own 1080? I do have experience sanding wood to exacting tollerances. Would the CPM 154 yield a superior 3" "tactial" lockback folding knife, given both made well?

With either steel would I use the same steel for blade and frame and spring, or is Bob Teruola's use of titanium for the frame and spring necessary? It seems, through my reading, to not be necessary.
Click to expand...

Choose the CPM if you don't want it to rust easy. Use the 1080 if you aren't worried about rust and want to heat treat it yourself. Any blade should be evenly ground unless there is a specific reason why it is not....chissel ground for example. The "eveness", if done poorly, could result in a warped or cracked blade whether you send it out or do it yourself.

You got guts trying a folder as your first knife. Just make sure nobody else is in the room when you try to put it together or they may be hit by your knife when you throw it due to frustration.
 
I don't really find CPM154 more difficult to work. It finishes out nice and easily, it'll just be a bit harder on belts if all else is equal. Most of the 10xx series steels don't come dead soft like the cpm steels do.
 
AcridSaint said:
I don't really find CPM154 more difficult to work. It finishes out nice and easily, it'll just be a bit harder on belts if all else is equal. Most of the 10xx series steels don't come dead soft like the cpm steels do.
Click to expand...


I agree with that, the CPM154 is easy to work before it is hardened, It's the after part that is hard on belts.
 
Rusty McDonald said:
I agree with that, the CPM154 is easy to work before it is hardened, It's the after part that is hard on belts.
Click to expand...

So, I could grind all but the finishing touches, send it out for heat treatment, and do the final grinding? If yes, what % to do ahead? How should it look?
 
I grind mine down to 220 then HT them myself, I try to leave the edge a little thinner than a dime. I'd day when I do mine they are 90% done with grinding. Buy you may want to leave more.
 
James_Terrio said:
I'm curious as to why you've selected two steels that are so very different.

I wouldn't try to HT CPM154 in a 2 brick forge. It needs to soak at 1950F for 45 minutes to an hour. You could always send it out for HT.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiousity... what does it cost roughly to send steel out for HT?
 
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