1080 vs 1084 any difference?

A

Alec Wachtman

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Mar 22, 2018
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Hello everyone, I was shopping around for some 1084 (I realized that 1095 wasn't very amateur friendly). And I realized that some places sell 1080, to make it more confusing, Jantz supply (the place I usually order from) calls it "1080 forging steel". Does anyone know where I can order plain, cold rolled, pre annealed 1084? I do stock removal almost exclusively and I just need a steel that is beginner friendly (can be HTd in a forge and checked with a magnet) and easy to get in multiple sizes. Any ideas?
 
Chuck, isn't the 80Crv2 as easy to HT in a forge as 1084? I'm asking this question, not trying to provide knowledge which I do NOT have.

It's the same price and is available in a lot more thickness for a stock removal guy. I've made a couple of knives with 80Crv2 and do like it.
 
I personally prefer 80CrV2 over 1084 for the reasons you wrote. Both are very easy to heat treat but 80CrV2 is available in many more thicknesses and in my testing 80CrV2 has a little better edge holding.

Chuck
 
What do you currently use to quench your steel?

I preferred quenchants are AAA and Park's 50.

Chuck
 
I was planning on quenching in canola oil. Currently, (because I didn't know any better) I use motor oil. Is there a place I could get some Parks #50 relatively inexpensively? I really don't want to pay the $70 for a gallon+shipping on USAknifemaker. I don't see any quenchants on AKS, which is too bad... I'd rather only pay shipping once.
 
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How many points harder would quenching in Parks #50 get it? And could someone give me a good overview of the heat treat process for 80 CRV2? I looked and it doesn't seem like AKS supplies HT info. Also, how does the quenching window look for 80CRV2/1084? I know that 1095 has to drop about 1000 dgrees in the first second....
 
First
Parks #50 will quench most carbon knife steels. It is an oil that will quench at near water quench speed.
Canola will quench the slower oil quench steel like O-1 and 5160. It isn't the best choice for any carbon steel above 1.00% carbon ( 1095, 52100, W2, etc.)
80CrV needs close to the Parks speed to get it fully hardened because of the extra alloying.

As to the original question about 1080 ves 1084 -
They are identical for practical purposed. the alloying is the same with the 1084 having a minute amount more carbon. I doubt anyone but a lab could tell them apart once a knife was made. They forge and harden the same. One thing that many don't know is that the actual analysis of most steels we use is higher in carbon than the alloy name implies. both 1080 and 1084 are commonly near .90% carbon. Because they have little other alloying, they will harden sufficiently in canola (but better in Parks if the blade is large or thick).

80CrV
I used to recommend 1084 as the best steel to start with. It is still am excellent choice. However, if you are going to start forging, 80CrV is an even better choice. It is also a great steel for the rest of your knife career. There are no drawbacks that I know of to using it for any general use knife.

Last
Buying a 5 gallon pail of Parks #50 is an investment in quality. Few knifemakers will ever use it up in a normal forge. Buy it with confidence that any problems with your quench are in temperature or steel ... not in the oil.
If you quit making knives, I bet you could sell it at a reasonable percentage of what you paid to another maker.
Buy a couple gallons of Canola oil to start if your budget is small, but put the Parks #50 on the first purchase list for after you get started.
 
would it be detrimental if I quenched a thinner blade (around 1/8" spine thickness) in Parks #50? I have read that 1095 can possibly crack in Parks if it's a thinner blade. I make a wide range of knives and would like to be able to use just one quenchant.
 
Go right to Maxim Oil for your Parks. You'll get a 5 gallon pail for not much more than the USA Knifemaker 1 gallon price. Actual shipped cost to me for 5 gallons was $120. You have to call them. No online purchasing.

I hate calling people and if I have to call to order, usually that means I'll go elsewhere, but that's the best option for P50.
 
So, I hate to do this, but correct me if I'm wrong: I need to go get some P50 from Maxim and some 80CRV2 from AKS? Would ordering some 1084 be worth it? Or are the two steels similar enough that if you can do one, you can do the other?
 
kuraki said:
Go right to Maxim Oil for your Parks. You'll get a 5 gallon pail for not much more than the USA Knifemaker 1 gallon price. Actual shipped cost to me for 5 gallons was $120. You have to call them. No online purchasing.

I hate calling people and if I have to call to order, usually that means I'll go elsewhere, but that's the best option for P50.
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I dont see it listed on their site. Did u have to give credit card info over phone?
 
Timbear said:
I dont see it listed on their site. Did u have to give credit card info over phone?
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It's not on their site. They bought out Parks formula, but I don't think it's a huge market for them. Just call and ask for a bucket of P50 Quench Oil. I paid by credit card over the phone but I imagine they'd take a mailed check instead.
 
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