1095CV vs. SR101

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Feb 3, 2006
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So I have 2 knives I'm looking at currently, okay 3. One is the Ratmandu and the others are the Magnum Camp and the Tweener Magnum Camp. I expect the heat treat to be pretty spot on with these 2 companies and geometry is more about preference IMO so let's talk about the steel. How does the 1095CV stand up to the SR101 in terms of strength? I know 52100 is going to have a finer blade and perhaps keep it's edge longer but I don't really care about those attributes. I've never felt like 1095 was ever lacking in my other examples as far as how fine the edge was and I can sharpen a knife just fine. So the strength, about the same? SR101 (52100) edge out the 1095CV a little? Pun intended. :D I've owned a SRKW Howling Rat so I know what to expect from that steel. I've just never owned a Becker in 1095CV. Would the Tweener magnum camp hold it's own against the Ratmandu as far as strength? Anyone own knives from both companies and can give a side by side comparison?

Edit: Side by side comparison of a Rat blade to a newer Becker blade. I know the Tweener isn't out yet. ;)
 
well, no tweeners for six months, best idea is for you to buy a Eskabar and have at it. $35 test :)

for normal use, there's no way in my mind you could see a difference if the heat treat is spot on.

1095cv is a darn good steel. the stuff just works and works and works.
 
Do you want to keep on wondering the rest of your life ?
Of course not... you need to buy a Becker and test them out :D
You will love Becker knives
 
52100 is what I always heard as "ball bearing steel". I'm no metallugist, I assure you, but ball bearings have a different kinda life, when they are put to use for their intended purpose. Slow wear, able to withstand heat, and last.

I like 1095CV over 52100. Its easier to maintain, and corrodes alot less. Plus, with the added chrome and vanadium, the 1095CV is tougher all around, IMO. It can withstand more flex with lateral stress, over the higher HT of the 52100.

Of course, I could be wrong.

TOOOOOOOOOJ!!!!!!!

Moose
 
moosez45 said:
52100 is what I always heard as "ball bearing steel". I'm no metallugist, I assure you, but ball bearings have a different kinda life, when they are put to use for their intended purpose. Slow wear, able to withstand heat, and last.

I like 1095CV over 52100. Its easier to maintain, and corrodes alot less. Plus, with the added chrome and vanadium, the 1095CV is tougher all around, IMO. It can withstand more flex with lateral stress, over the higher HT of the 52100.

Of course, I could be wrong.

TOOOOOOOOOJ!!!!!!!

Moose
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Yeah, what Moose said.
I was just gonna say that 1095 is a bigger number than 101 and even if that makes no difference, it is still a fact.
 
BushOgre said:
Yeah, what Moose said.
I was just gonna say that 1095 is a bigger number than 101 and even if that makes no difference, it is still a fact.
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Thats funny, I dont care who you are.
 
I have beaten the tar out of some swamp rat knives including the RMD and SR101 is amazing. It is tough, very chip resistant and holds a mean edge. The RMD is my favorite knife of all time but you should just buy a becker and an RMD and decide for yourself.
 
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by strength. In terms of toughness, there aren't many steels tougher than 1095. That's why it's a top choice for extreme use, like mower blades.
 
If i were were you, which of course I'm not, I would get the Mag. camp and the Ratmandu now and then get the Camp tweener later. Hope this helps.
 
1966c10 said:
hmm. These 2 steels are very close in composition. I'm not getting a few things though...

Considering 52100 has .1% more Cr and small amounts of Cu, how is 1095CV going to be more corrosion resistant?

Also, why is 52100 harder to maintain? 52100 has more Cr in it, but 1095CV has a touch of V in it. I've never found a measurable difference in sharpening. 52100 seems to take some finesse to get the "toothy" out of it, but it sharpens very easily. I can see 52100 with an arguable toughness advantage that would only manifest in the heat treat. But in that we are comparing a small batch heat treat from a custom maker to mass production heat treat.

In my experience of my SWKW Rodent Solution vs multiple KaBars, SR101 is the hands down WinRAR.
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Granted, the comps are close, but 52100 that I've seen, tends to be on the higher side of the HT scale. 1095 can only be taken so far. Toooj's HT at Kabar, lends itself to be a tougher knife than the older BKT knives, mostly because of the HT. What I stated before, is an opinion, and like I said, I'm no metallurgist, just a user. I have tried many different steels, and honestly, you can't tell much difference when you get to most commercial carbon steels.

I have some knives made from O1, with high HT's, close to 60-61. Take a great edge and hold it. I'm also leary of putting as much lateral force on them as I would a 58-59 BKT/Kabar.

Like I said, no expert, just a user.

Moose
 
If you want to play with someone elses Becker I'm sure it could be arranged.
 
1966c10 said:
Same here bro. Just an enthusiast. I've been lurking the Becker forums for awhile and think you're great. A Tweener is on the short list of upcoming purchases to hide from my wife till it's beat up enough that she thinks I've had it for ages.
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Well, welcome, and you seem to know your stuff when it comes to steel comps. I've only glammed on to what I run across. I used to be really into metallurgy, and proper heat treating. Sometimes, it borders alchemy.

Take Bob Dozier, and his D2 HT. Dozier can take D2 and turn it into something nearly magical. I don't own one, but I got a friend that has a few. The one's I've used, are beyond anything else I've used in the D2 category.

Back to 1095CV. I don't think anyone else on the market is using the recipe for 1095CV, and compared to the Rowen HT of 1095, the CV is much more resistant to corroding. That's for sure.

I've heard E talking about some war stories of some 1095 that blew apart during HT, reaching its limit. I've also seen 1095CV bend 55 degrees before braking as well.

I had an old Marble's Ideal some years ago, before the buyout and move to India, and it was 52100, I couldn't get a field expedient edge on it to save my life, using a river rock. My new BKT's will. The old Camillus BKT's I had, would take a field edge OK, but not great. The new BKT's seem to take to the river rocks well, but I still prefer my KME sharpener, by far.

I still want to hear Toooj's take on it, as he is a professional metallurgist, and a helluva cook, in the knife kitchen.

Glad you're here, stick around, brother, sounds like we could use your insight.

Moose
 
Whoa, this has gone super technical. Let me sum it up in plain English. (clears throat) Knives are made of metal and can get really sharp. Metal is also harder than frozen pudding. Therefore buy a knife made of metal and not frozen pudding. Also, knives are great tools. Okay, that just about covers it. Now call Uncle Ethan and ask him if he would like to make the OgreTrail knife that SilentJohn drew up. Oh yeah, I want it with metal.
:)

Thanks,

BushOgre
 
BushOgre said:
Whoa, this has gone super technical. Let me sum it up in plain English. (clears throat) Knives are made of metal and can get really sharp. Metal is also harder than frozen pudding. Therefore buy a knife made of metal and not frozen pudding. Also, knives are great tools. Okay, that just about covers it. Now call Uncle Ethan and ask him if he would like to make the OgreTrail knife that SilentJohn drew up. Oh yeah, I want it with metal.
:)

Thanks,

BushOgre
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Are you ssuurree?? It's hot outside... that frozen pudding is looking aawwffuullyy nice right now...
 
Heat treatment of course is the biggest factor, and both outfits you're talking about here do an excellent job of heat treating. The short answer is that neither is indestructible, both are very capable, and will serve you well. The compared blade geometries will be a much bigger factor in how well they perform in any given task, and the designs of the handles will determine which is better in YOUR hands, which nobody on this board can answer except you.

52100 is more of a "premium" steel just in its cost and also exclusivity---until recently, it was not readily available in bar stock and so was the domain solely of the forgers who could beat giant ball bearings into submission. I've used it in knives by Blackjack, Swamp Rat, Ed Fowler (yes, I use my Ed Fowler knives ;) ) Ray Kirk and Bill Buxton and can say that it really is my favorite all-around knife steel.

As to steels which are tougher than 1095 when properly HT'd:
1) ANY of the other 10-- series steels (1050, 1060, 1070, 1075, 1080, 1084)
2)5160
3)L6/8670M
4)INFI
5)3V
6)S5 Shock steel
7)S7 Shock steel

...and a few others I'm doubtless forgetting but those are alloys that have some tendency to show up in knives/swords. Now, this doesn't necessarily make them "better" than 1095, but if all you're going for is tougher then yes--they'll all beat it and some will spank it like a redheaded stepchild (3V and INFI, for example).

All of that said, it is difficult to find a design/steel combination that gives you more knife for the money than a Becker.
 
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