1095CV vs. SR101

moosez45 said:
52100 is what I always heard as "ball bearing steel". I'm no metallugist, I assure you, but ball bearings have a different kinda life, when they are put to use for their intended purpose. Slow wear, able to withstand heat, and last.

I like 1095CV over 52100. Its easier to maintain, and corrodes alot less. Plus, with the added chrome and vanadium, the 1095CV is tougher all around, IMO. It can withstand more flex with lateral stress, over the higher HT of the 52100.

Of course, I could be wrong.

TOOOOOOOOOJ!!!!!!!

Moose
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SR-101 is 52100 with added chromium, and it is also true its a ball bearing steel. As for toughness of the two that would be hard to say, they might be close but SR-101 has a better than average HT so without lab testing to destruction we may never know. SR-101 is also only taken to a 58-60. The main difference though will be the much greater edge retention of the SR-101, 52100 originally was brought to market for hunters wanting a longer lasting edge IIRC.

As for sharpening of the two I can't tell much of a difference 1095cv from kabar is not normal 1095..... That's in a good way :D
 
We need to get Kevin Cashen onto this thread---you'd learn alot for the first ten minutes of reading and then your head would explode from the sheer volume of information. At least, that's been my experience. :D


Honestly, I believe part of the reason many of the old master smiths started bringing 52100 into the market originally was because it was a steel they could use and stock-removal makers could not. A little good-natured one-upsmanship. Of course, it also ended up being a superb blade steel once the correct HT protocol was arrived at.

Now that I think of it, with 52100 and BG-42 being my favorite non-stainless and stainless steels, respectively, I have a soft spot for ball-bearing steels in general!
 
I for one was not guided to 52100 because it was not available to stock removal folks. I started using it because of its potential quality, it is a steel that earns its way through performance, therefore quality control is a major consideration.
 
t1mpani said:
- - Snipped some very good analysis and insight - -

All of that said, it is difficult to find a design/steel combination that gives you more knife for the money than a Becker.
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See, for me, this indisputable bottom line negates the need for the detailed analysis. It would be real easy for me to be a steel snob for a couple of reasons; 1) Steel and metals in general have always interested me and have been prominent in how I've made my living for much of my adult life (welder, welding instructor, silversmith), and 2) It's intellectually stimulating and rewarding to gain the knowledge and know how to apply it in meaningful ways.

But then, when it comes to hard-use fixed blade production knives, I start employing that analysis and then slap myself in the forehead like I coulda had a V-8, and recall the axiomatic truism articulated in the quote above. Then I order another Becker, or at least talk myself out of ordering something else that invariably costs more with no real benefit-to-increased-cost ratio to justify the added expenditure.

Yep, buy a Becker. If you think that analyzing the bejeezus out of the respective blade steels is gonna make building a shelter out of just the materials you find in the woods any easier, or in fire-making, or chopping and batoning, I think you're deluding yourself. Blade geometry can certainly make a big difference. But blade steel, assuming similar composition and quality heat treating for both, nah, you'd never be able to tell one from the other in performance out in the field. Just my .02. YMMV, but it shouldn't. LOL

Blues
 
BluesStringer said:
Yep, buy a Becker. If you think that analyzing the bejeezus out of the respective blade steels is gonna make building a shelter out of just the materials you find in the woods any easier, or in fire-making, or chopping and batoning, I think you're deluding yourself. Blade geometry can certainly make a big difference. But blade steel, assuming similar composition and quality heat treating for both, nah, you'd never be able to tell one from the other in performance out in the field. Just my .02. YMMV, but it shouldn't. LOL

Blues
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Absolutely dead center.
 
Ethan is a good hand, honest to the core and knows his stuff. I have never had any negative thoughts about him.
 
Ed Fowler said:
I for one was not guided to 52100 because it was not available to stock removal folks. I started using it because of its potential quality, it is a steel that earns its way through performance, therefore quality control is a major consideration.
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Since Ed is probably more responsible for bringing this steel into knife-making prominence than any other maker, this is the point where I acknowledge that beliefs can be misguided! :o :D
 
For a smaller general use knife I find myself prefering 52100/SR101 due to it's added edge retention however 1095 while lacking edge the retention of SR101 is a bit tougher and less likely to chip, IMO you can't go wrong with Becker or Swamprat both companies are interested in providing an exceptional product at a down to earth price.
 
a knife in the hand is worth more than two lost in the bush (or mere specs on paper)

buy some knives fellas!
 
1966c10 said:
Same here bro. Just an enthusiast. I've been lurking the Becker forums for awhile and think you're great.
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Please do not feed the Moose ego. Thank you.

BushOgre said:
Whoa, this has gone super technical. Let me sum it up in plain English. (clears throat) Knives are made of metal and can get really sharp. Metal is also harder than frozen pudding. Therefore buy a knife made of metal and not frozen pudding.
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Finally. Something on my level. :thumbup:

Ed Fowler said:
Ethan is a good hand, honest to the core and knows his stuff. I have never had any negative thoughts about him.
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Dang. Ed Fowler is posting up in the Becker forum. How cool is that? Thanks for stopping in, Ed.



I don't know all the fancy percentages, and I don't break knives in vices all day long. I don't pretend to be a metallurgist, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I do know my Ka-Bar 1095CV blades take and keep a good edge. They work and work well. Better than Swamp Rat? Couldn't really say. My favorite mid-sized, fixed-blade knife (7") is the original SR Ratweiler, and it has excellent edge-holding ability as well. I haven't gotten out the microscope and compared any SR's and Beckers after equal sharpening and chopping sessions. All I know is that both are good stuff.

Now where's that pudding?
 
whetrock said:
For a smaller general use knife I find myself prefering 52100/SR101 due to it's added edge retention however 1095 while lacking edge the retention of SR101 is a bit tougher and less likely to chip, IMO you can't go wrong with Becker or Swamprat both companies are interested in providing an exceptional product at a down to earth price.
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That hasn't been my experience--I've had some seriously chewed up USMC edges over the years through hard (though non-abusive) use. Never dinged up my much-loved Camp Tramp beyond just normal dulling.
 
Keep in mind that the USMC is a much thinner knife than the Camp Tramp. Or the BK-2, etc.
Thickness and edge geometry play a role in terms of how a knife handles "hard use," whatever that happens to be.
 
SR-101 really doesn't chip at all. I think most people who say that 1095 is more chip resistant have never used both. SR-101, from the times I have dinged it up, always tends to roll. I hit my RMD on a ceramic bird bath once while doing yard work and the edge just rolled a bit and was an easy fix. MY Junglas tends to chip more than roll. I think overall SR-101 is a better steel than modded 1095, especially with the swamps heat treat. How many broken swamp rats have you seen? Ive never seen one break that wasn't overhardend/ had a manufacturing flaw. On the other hand, Ive alot of broken beckers.

But even after taking into account which steel performs better get the one that is most comfortable for you.
 
Guyon said:
Keep in mind that the USMC is a much thinner knife than the Camp Tramp. Or the BK-2, etc.
Thickness and edge geometry play a role in terms of how a knife handles "hard use," whatever that happens to be.
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Yes, but thickness at the edge is really the only thing that plays into chipping, and a half-height saber ground 5/32" blade may well have a thicker edge shoulder than a full-flat ground 1/4" blade does. I think the more likely difference I've noted is the quality of heat treat between the mass-produced USMC (and there's a reason I'm not saying Kabar...in fact, the USMC knife I bought from the PX in Fort Hood was a Camillus) versus the much lower production/higher quality control Swamp Rat. Still, with a lot of experience with both steels in production and custom knives, the principle difference I note is that while it's about as easy with either to achieve shaving sharp, it's often a comparative pain in the butt to get 1095 to the hair whittling stage, whereas 52100 tends to just happily polish on up. Don't get me wrong, I can GET 1095 to that stage, but it's often more requiring of determination.

As to geometry, I tend to be very consistent with my edge angles for knives of the same size/intended use--which is thinner than the norm, but not "stupid" thin. :D
 
I don't think you can go wrong either way you swing. I have a few SR's that I use in the field and I love em. However, the only reason I got into the SR's was that Becker was out of production at the time.
 
I've seen Swamp Rats do some crazy things. Here's one that was put up against a toilet.

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But I've also seen some Beckers do some crazy things. Here's one that was put up against a lawn mower.

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http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/839944-BK2-test-the-final-part-(LOTS-of-pictures)


Since I don't fight toilets or lawnmowers, I think I'm going to be safe in the woods with either one. ;)
 
Guyon said:
I've seen Swamp Rats do some crazy things. Here's one that was put up against a toilet.

But I've also seen some Beckers do some crazy things. Here's one that was put up against a lawn mower.

Since I don't fight toilets or lawnmowers, I think I'm going to be safe in the woods with either one. ;)
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The text in bold sums up how I feel. Though I'd like to add that I have a 20" Sirupati model Khukri from H.I. that I've used in the woods a ton. It's been used to clear trails all over central Utah for the last 8 years and I even used it today to do the same. The blade has hit tons of rocks, dirt and even steel on ocassion, but still works great! It was pounded out of a truck leaf spring (most likey 5160 spring steel) over a coal fire in a small shop in the mountains of Nepal and heat treated with warm/hot water pured from a tea kettle. So it was made the old school way and works. The point is, a knife can be made in a simple old school fassion from simple steels, or made out of newer fancier steels in very controlled enviroments, as long as the person or persons involved do their job correctly, it's all good!!
 
"How many broken swamp rats have you seen? Ive never seen one break that wasn't overhardend/ had a manufacturing flaw. On the other hand, Ive alot of broken beckers."

I love my BK9 and think that it's an incredibly knife, but if I were to grab one knife that I would unquestionably task with anything (where both performance and toughness were required), i would take my Swamp Rat RMD.
 
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