12C27 or BG42 help Delta Z choose!

Darrel,

I don't know about the rest of the guys on here, but I would love to see it in BG-42, as a matter of fact, if it's BG-42 I would love to pick one up, if it's not, well, I don't know about that. The price difference would have to be VERY extreme to justify 12C27 given those two options. IMHO of course.
 
Oh! Like there is any real choice here! BG-42. What other choice could there possibly be?
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The individualist without strategy who takes opponents lightly will inevitably become the captive of others.
Sun Tzu
 
No brainer; 12C27 is a low alloy steel, designed for ease of machining (probably stamping) and low cost. It is similar to 440A and 420HC.

BG-42 is much better from an elemental compositon standpoint, having 4% Mo, and 1.2% V (totally lacking in the other alloy); these elements are carbide formers, and the higher C content (1.15% vs. 0.7%) of BG-42 will help insure more carbide formation. In addition, Mo and V carbides are very hard. Both qualities will aid edge holding. Both these elements also help control the grain structure, resulting in fine grained steel. Further, the double melt purification process (Vacuum Induction Melting, Vacuum Arc Remelting) yields a very pure steel. BG, after all, stands for Bearing Grade.

A low alloy stainless vs. perhaps the finest crucible, double melted steel in use today? As I said, a no brainer. BG-42 all the way.

Walt
 
Hi Darrel. I think it depends on whether or not they want volume.

BG-42 is (as Walt mentioned) a VIM VAR bearing steel. Manufactured materials cost is at least 3 times that of 12C27. The harder/tougher material will cost 3 to 4 times as much to shape into a knife blade. The street price could be as much or more than double using BG. Just some thoughts to share.

sal
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Darrel Ralph:
Delta Z is trying to decide between 12C27 and BG42 as the steel choice on the new Osprey Knife.
Any feedback would be a help.</font>
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I suppose they know enough about the steels themselves, so the question is really "do we make more money if we make an X dollar knife we market in this way or an Y dollar knife we market in that way?", isn't it?
We can't answer that unless they give us a lot of information about their internal operation than that they can't afford to make both versions and have no idea which market it's aimed at, and they won't do that, will they?
Out of curiosity, as the designer, how much different do you think the edge geometries should be for the different steels, or would they be identical?
 
Darrel,


After all is considered, I think the people on this forum would like BG-42 better. I would vote for it and would pay the premium for it.

Liong

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Follow The Path of Fantasies.
 
Despite what I may prefer I think the knife will sell with BG42 and not sell with 12C27. I think it's actually that black and white. Take care.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by AncientSUL:
Darrel,


After all is considered, I think the people on this forum would like BG-42 better. I would vote for it and would pay the premium for it.

Liong

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I humbly agree
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Walt Welch:
...Further, the double melt purification process (Vacuum Induction Melting, Vacuum Arc Remelting) yields a very pure steel. BG, after all, stands for Bearing Grade.</font>
Click to expand...

Walt, not by ANY means disagreeing with you, but I have a question: if BG42 is indeed such a pure steel due to its manufacturing process, why have I heard at least 2 custom makers complain that they lose too much material from BG42, trying to grind away crappy surface steel? One maker told me that he doesn't like to use it because by the time he gets it ground down to good steel, it is thinner than he likes for the size of blades he does (or something to that effect).

I love BG42 myself, and would not even consider the Osprey if it was in 12C27. But, I'm
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about the purity of BG42.

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The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. - Ambrose Bierce
Most dog owners are at length able to teach themselves to obey their dog. - Robert Morley

iktomi
 
Definately BG-42.

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Rs
Don
Medicine Man of the Extinct Fugowee Tribe
 
I tend to think that there is a good market for a reasonably priced BG-42 knife. I remember the Master Series Bucks myself as being a huge value and a good knife. Delta-Z could sure pick up some market share with a BG-42 knife if the pricepoint was right.

Stay Sharp,
Sid
 
12C27 without a doubt
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Duh...
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Talk about a stupid question!

BG-42 is a VERY good steel.

W.A.

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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
Darrel: Isn't the quality of the heat treatment the real determining factor? That's always been my impression. Other than that, of course my choice would be BG42.
Dick
 
One more vote for BG42.

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Dave

Let no one ever from henceforth say one word in any way countenancing war. It is dangerous even to speak of how here and there the individual may gain some hardship of soul by it. For war is hell, and those who institute it are criminals. Siegfried Loraine Sassoon
 
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