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12C27 or BG42 help Delta Z choose!
- Thread starter Darrel Ralph
- Start date
So, you're here to gather arguments to convince the manufacturer to go with your recommendation?
If they know what you think, they must have a pretty good case for thinking that 12C27 will be good enough, if they're seriously considering it. I can guess why they think so.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 1999
- Messages
- 10
12C27 is a very good steel! It´s cheap, easy to work and reasonably stainless. I tested an extremely cheap (USD 5.00) Frost knife (with this steel) three weeks ago and tested the egde on a 2" nylon rope and cardboard. I gave up after 30 nylon cuts and 30 pc 3 feet long cardboard cuts. OK, the knife didn´t cut hair any longer but it was still sharp. I got swetty and tired and that was the reason why I quit!
I tested an ATS34 blade at the same time, the edge was grounded to the same profile as the Frost knife. This knife cut just as well, lost its hair-popping after some 30 cuts but was still sharp after cutting a 2" nylon rope 30 times and cut thru cardboard 30 x 3 feet.
If I had continued I had maybe seen a difference -but why would I? When do I need to cut that much?
Now, ATS34 isn´t BG42 but maybe we can say they´re in the same range - hi-end steels, very tough to work, very expensive, very attractive.
Of course 12C27 from Sandvik is the best steel if you add qualities as strength, edge retention, rust resistance, easy to stamp, easy to grind, easy to heat treat and temper, AND the price matter, not to forget.
It´s all a question about what the blade will be used to.
For various tasks (99 % of our life) this steel, like 440C, 6AUS, DIN 1.4110 and so on, will work well and will never let us down.
The tests I made on the 12C27 steel together with the real giant Swedish knife maker (Mr. Berth Oberg) more than fifteen years ago (when ATS34 still was pretty unknown and we dealed with D2 as the best custom knife maker steel) showed that 12C27 was (and still is) an extremely good steel IF treated properly. If treated properly. If...
It´s a good old truth - a good heat treatment of an average steel is always better than a superior steel, treated average.
Maybe Jerry B. has come a bit on the road?
And still, why are we demanding a better steel? We don´t need a better steel during our ordinairy days.
There are times we demand an extra ordinairy quality from our knife and that is when our lives depend on the function of this tool. Then, any knife is worth the value no matter the cost and only then, we´re ready to accept any costs for the steel. Our company is making survival knives and that´s the reason why we´re using a hi-end steel.
Some companies has entered this field and we find that they go for cheap industrial spring steel, high and low carbon steel, titanium blades, high carbon stainless blades. Serrations and non-serrations. Full tang, hidden tang. Small blades, large blades. Even folders! We believe them when they say they´re good as their advertisments says so.
Many of these companies have no own experience from survival matters, they make their knives from drawing boards only and hope to sell, that´s all.
So, why do we buy these expensive BG42, VG10, ATS34, CPM steel blades?
Because we are certified knife nuts!
We like to check what´s new, what´s hot, what´s better, what´s stronger and we love to see those new designs. What´s around the next corner?
We at Fallkniven are very satisfied with our new steel (VG10), we have found it to be very, very strong, to keep an edge extremely well and to be pretty rust resistant - but we believe that we will change to another steel within three years, a steel made in the USA, in Europe or in Asia.
We have initiated a European development for yet another good steel, including another extremely good heat treatment. As soon as we have some facts to release, we won´t be any secret agents but will tell about what we know.
Take care
Peter Hjortberger, Fallkniven AB, Sweden
I tested an ATS34 blade at the same time, the edge was grounded to the same profile as the Frost knife. This knife cut just as well, lost its hair-popping after some 30 cuts but was still sharp after cutting a 2" nylon rope 30 times and cut thru cardboard 30 x 3 feet.
If I had continued I had maybe seen a difference -but why would I? When do I need to cut that much?
Now, ATS34 isn´t BG42 but maybe we can say they´re in the same range - hi-end steels, very tough to work, very expensive, very attractive.
Of course 12C27 from Sandvik is the best steel if you add qualities as strength, edge retention, rust resistance, easy to stamp, easy to grind, easy to heat treat and temper, AND the price matter, not to forget.
It´s all a question about what the blade will be used to.
For various tasks (99 % of our life) this steel, like 440C, 6AUS, DIN 1.4110 and so on, will work well and will never let us down.
The tests I made on the 12C27 steel together with the real giant Swedish knife maker (Mr. Berth Oberg) more than fifteen years ago (when ATS34 still was pretty unknown and we dealed with D2 as the best custom knife maker steel) showed that 12C27 was (and still is) an extremely good steel IF treated properly. If treated properly. If...
It´s a good old truth - a good heat treatment of an average steel is always better than a superior steel, treated average.
Maybe Jerry B. has come a bit on the road?
And still, why are we demanding a better steel? We don´t need a better steel during our ordinairy days.
There are times we demand an extra ordinairy quality from our knife and that is when our lives depend on the function of this tool. Then, any knife is worth the value no matter the cost and only then, we´re ready to accept any costs for the steel. Our company is making survival knives and that´s the reason why we´re using a hi-end steel.
Some companies has entered this field and we find that they go for cheap industrial spring steel, high and low carbon steel, titanium blades, high carbon stainless blades. Serrations and non-serrations. Full tang, hidden tang. Small blades, large blades. Even folders! We believe them when they say they´re good as their advertisments says so.
Many of these companies have no own experience from survival matters, they make their knives from drawing boards only and hope to sell, that´s all.
So, why do we buy these expensive BG42, VG10, ATS34, CPM steel blades?
Because we are certified knife nuts!
We like to check what´s new, what´s hot, what´s better, what´s stronger and we love to see those new designs. What´s around the next corner?
We at Fallkniven are very satisfied with our new steel (VG10), we have found it to be very, very strong, to keep an edge extremely well and to be pretty rust resistant - but we believe that we will change to another steel within three years, a steel made in the USA, in Europe or in Asia.
We have initiated a European development for yet another good steel, including another extremely good heat treatment. As soon as we have some facts to release, we won´t be any secret agents but will tell about what we know.
Take care
Peter Hjortberger, Fallkniven AB, Sweden
