15n20 or 8670

jdm61 said:
Parks #50 does not require heating unless the ambient temp is below 70F. ?The other question is whether or not it is the right quenchant for 8670 because of the added Mo and Cr?
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8670 probably doesn’t need it, but I’ve used DT-48 to get higher hardness for a kitchen knife tester. That knife turned out to be a great performer.
 
So there are a some benefits to Parks 50 over canola oil even on 8670?
I just got parks 50 for w2 but I was still going to use canola for 8670, but now I'm curious.
 
DeadboxHero said:
So there are a some benefits to Parks 50 over canola oil even on 8670?
I just got parks 50 for w2 but I was still going to use canola for 8670, but now I'm curious.
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I don’t know if this steel needs it, but I do get a bit more hardness in 15n20 with DT-48. This does increase stress in the steel. I’m planning to test my heat treat for 8670. I’ll compare canola with DT-48 and let you guys know if there’s a difference.

AKS steel is ready to heat treat as you get it. No normalizing and thermal cycling required.
 
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Pelagicfun said:
Thank you for a fast response. I not interested in damascus at the moment. I do find it interesting reading from people that says 15n20 is a good all around and underrated. Does #50 need warmed for it? If a choose to clamp in plates after quench how long do you wait? I read multiple times it is easy to straighten if mistakes are made. Does this make clamping in plates not so worth it?
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15n20 will hold a very fine edge, much like aeb-l. You have to run it hard, like Rc62 to get the benefit in a monosteel. If you have temp control, austenitizing between 1460-1475f (JT uses 1450 in his shop) with a 10 min soak and fast quench will perform better than expected. The nickel ads toughness so the fine edge resists chipping at higher hardness. At Rc60, it’s ok, but doesn’t hold an edge in a very impressive way. At Rc62, it outperforms O1 at Rc60. Of course, if you go harder with O1, you can get better wear resistance.

15n20 is a clean, fine grained steel that allows you to run higher hardness than expected.
 
Willie71 said:
I don’t know if this steel needs it, but I do get a bit more hardness in 15n20 with DT-48. This does increase stress in the steel. I’m planning to test my heat treat for 8670. I’ll compare canola with DT-48 and let you guys know if there’s a difference.

AKS steel is ready to heat treat as you get it. No normalizing and thermal cycling required.
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Right on, you think it allows for low aus temps or just a bump in AQ hardness?

I've got some to HT next week
 
I knew I felt my ears burning. I would be more then happy to test coupons for you. I think everyone knows where I stand on my thoughts on 15n20 and what I think about 8670. I love 15n20 it is VERY clean steel that has crazy small grains (when heat treated properly). It’s easy to heat treat and will blow the lid off alot of other beginner easy to heat treat steels in the hardness category. I heat treated a customers 15n20 blade a little bit ago and had to retest the hardness a few times. It was reading 67rc. That’s the hardest I have ever seen a simple easy to heat treat steel get. The great thing is once you drop it into the 62rc range it’s quite tough. I use 5160 an ok amount as it forges good but 15n20 does resist corrosion fairly good. I use 5160 for my 2nd Amendment knives and I have had to start epoxy coating the tangs befor cord wrapping because handling the steel while wrapping will darken the steel. Not on 15n20 though. After I’m out of 5160 I will be switching to 15n20 for this knife. You can use what you like but I give a vote for 15n20. It also can be much cheaper in price if you know who to talk to. Parks 50 is a great oil for 15n20. I would not quench 8670 in it as it likes slow oil like 5160. So get ya some AAA quench oil.

jdm61 said:
Parks #50 does not require heating unless the ambient temp is below 70F. ?The other question is whether or not it is the right quenchant for 8670 because of the added Mo and Cr?
Click to expand...

My research showed parks #50 was good down to 50°.
 
I am still thinking about "stretching" my last little 6 x .200 x 1.5 piece of 115W8 by "cladding" it in 15N20. How hard would 15N20 be after say a 1470/400 HT? I have also contemplated doing the same type of san mai mix using CruForge V with something, perhaps non-moly L6 or maybe even 4340. What I worry about the CFV is that I have heard tell that it does not ideally blend with 15N20. I am guessing the is because the quenchant that is required for CVF is not optimally suited for 15N20.
JTknives said:
I knew I felt my ears burning. I would be more then happy to test coupons for you. I think everyone knows where I stand on my thoughts on 15n20 and what I think about 8670. I love 15n20 it is VERY clean steel that has crazy small grains (when heat treated properly). It’s easy to heat treat and will blow the lid off alot of other beginner easy to heat treat steels in the hardness category. I heat treated a customers 15n20 blade a little bit ago and had to retest the hardness a few times. It was reading 67rc. That’s the hardest I have ever seen a simple easy to heat treat steel get. The great thing is once you drop it into the 62rc range it’s quite tough. I use 5160 an ok amount as it forges good but 15n20 does resist corrosion fairly good. I use 5160 for my 2nd Amendment knives and I have had to start epoxy coating the tangs befor cord wrapping because handling the steel while wrapping will darken the steel. Not on 15n20 though. After I’m out of 5160 I will be switching to 15n20 for this knife. You can use what you like but I give a vote for 15n20. It also can be much cheaper in price if you know who to talk to. Parks 50 is a great oil for 15n20. I would not quench 8670 in it as it likes slow oil like 5160. So get ya some AAA quench oil.



My research showed parks #50 was good down to 50°.
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jdm61 said:
I am still thinking about "stretching" my last little 6 x .200 x 1.5 piece of 115W8 by "cladding" it in 15N20. How hard would 15N20 be after say a 1470/400 HT? I have also contemplated doing the same type of san mai mix using CruForge V with something, perhaps non-moly L6 or maybe even 4340.
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You would probably be about Rc58/59.
 
Do you think that is "optimum toughness" range for 15N20 like it is for L6? I would guess that 4340 would come in around the low 50's at those temps, but I might worry a little bit about the austenizing temp being a tad low.
Willie71 said:
You would probably be about Rc58/59.
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jdm61 said:
Do you think that is "optimum toughness" range for 15N20 like it is for L6? I would guess that 4340 would come in around the low 50's at those temps, but I might worry a little bit about the austenizing temp being a tad low.
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I’m probably not the right person to ask. I’ve never run 15n20 below Rc60, and in the past few years, everything in 15n20 has been Rc62 or Rc63. At Rc58/59, 15n20 will be a lot tougher than the core steel.
 
I did 10 coupons in 8670 last night in 25f increments between 1450 and 1650. I’ll do the Rc#’s later today after I get my main project done. 10 min soak and quench in fast oil. When I know the optimum, I’ll try the same temp with heated canola and see if there’s a difference.
 
And 115W8 is darn tough to begin with!!!! I was inspired by Murray Carter's "super san mai" which uses 1035 as the cladding and Super Blue as the core. I am not inclined to go the traditional route using a non-hardening cladding steel.
Willie71 said:
I’m probably not the right person to ask. I’ve never run 15n20 below Rc60, and in the past few years, everything in 15n20 has been Rc62 or Rc63. At Rc58/59, 15n20 will be a lot tougher than the core steel.
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jdm61 said:
And 115W8 is darn tough to begin with!!!! I was inspired by Murray Carter's "super san mai" which uses 1035 as the cladding and Super Blue as the core. I am not inclined to go the traditional route using a non-hardening cladding steel.
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As has been stated on these forums quite a few times over the past few months, we overvalue toughness as an idea, when most steels heat treated properly are way tougher than we actually need. Outside of some guy wanting to build an entire village with just his camp knife as a tool, we don’t see a lot of blade failures in normal use.
 
Willie71 said:
As has been stated on these forums quite a few times over the past few months, we overvalue toughness as an idea, when most steels heat treated properly are way tougher than we actually need. Outside of some guy wanting to build an entire village with just his camp knife as a tool, we don’t see a lot of blade failures in normal use.
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This is true. But I can tell you, I’m caught up in this toughness thing. But I’m not looking for failures in the field if I can help it. I over test the hell out of my knives, and if they hold up, then I know for dam sure my customers won’t break one. I’ve seen some guys use their knives for everything from a pry tool, screwdriver, to jumping across battery posts doing mechanic work! It can be kinda crazy, but I’ve yet to see one of my knives broken yet, and I have quite a few out in 15n20, and 8670.
 
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