15ot

[grey menace]

I'm still trying to figure out these 15OT's. I have a number of them,5 Schrade Walden ,3 with serial numbers, 00465,07442,37669,and 2 with just Pat.Pend. One of them is a Ted Williams.Did they just read Pat. Pend. before or after they got numbers? Some have stamped tangs and some are etched. Also have 3 Schrade N.Y ,2 with stamped tangs 1 with etched. Any help greatly appreciated,thanks,G.M

 

[Codger_64]

Patent pending etched marks were first, then serials were started, then the patent issued. Some Pat Pend marked knives have serials and usually have Pat Pend as a part of the stamp. Sears was one of the first markets for these knives, so they may be marked any of these ways with Ted Williams etch added. Etched marks (other than Sears SFO marks) were usually because a stamp was not ready, or a replacement for a broken stamp was not yet in-house. Custom Craftsman marks came later on this pattern, probably post 1973, though at this point I don't have definitive proof of this.

Michael

 

[grey menace]

Thanks for the info Codger, I'd be lost without you and a few others on the forum. Its so hard to find any info on Schrades. Your help is much appreciated. G.M

 

[ea42]

I saw an etched pat. pend. 15OT come across Ebay not too long ago. The etch was on the pile side, I believe under and just in front of the thumb notch and parrallel to it. Pretty small etch and not too bold. Came with the crosshatched sheath. I tried for it but it went north of $200 before I could react. Apparently some other folks knew what it was as well. I was really hoping for a win on that one dang it!:grumpy: On top of that I never thought to save a pic, and now I can't find the link. They are out there though:thumbup:

Eric

 

[Codger_64]

...and an early serial from the sample room...

 

[ea42]

Yep Michael, that's just like the one I saw. Glad someone has a picture . That's some crazy handle material on that LOW numbered one:thumbup:

Eric

 

[grey menace]

I also have a low numbered 15Ot #00465, but mine sure doesn't have handles like that one. I almost feel stupid for asking, but were those factory handles for a special order or something? G.M

 

[Codger_64]

The marbled green handled knife came from the sample room, as did some strange handle colors on other patterns. If this color was used on any SFO knives, I am not aware of it.

 

[rprocter]

i just bought this Schrade-Walden 15OT, Pat Pending with a serial#:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320308514158&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=011
i also have a S-W 15OT Pat. Pending with no serial # and tooled basketweave sheath.
which is the older of these 2 ?
Codger, above you say Pat Pending ETCH came first (no serial #).
how can i tell if the Pat. Pending on my 15OT with basketweave sheath is an etch or a stamping ?
i.e. was the sequence: Pat Pending etch; then Pat. Pending stamp with serial #s; then Pat. Pending stamp with no serial #s ? (referring only to Schrade Walden 15OTs).
also are yearly production numbers known to allow dating by the serial # ?
and, am i correct that sheath with ebay knife linked to above is NOT a Schrade ?
thanks for helping me out here.
roland

 

[rprocter]

here are pics of the 2 Schrade-Walden 15OTs described above:
both Schrade-Walden/N.Y. U.S.A.

upper knife: 15OT Pat./Pend./09735
lower knife:15OT Pat./Pend.

and the sheaths:upper is knife with serial#, not original ?
lower: basketweave and knife named SVEN

from info in this thread, i think the serial # knife is the older as the Pat. Pend. on knife with SVEN shield is not an etch.
1964 was first year of production for 15OT. any idea as to when serial #s were started ? '64 ? 65?
and how long it took to get to 09735 ?
roland

 

[Codger_64]

The wierd sheath is not original, at least I have never seen one like that issued with a 15OT.

Records show that 5,346 of the Schrade Walden knives, and 836 of the Sears #10600 were shipped in 1964, before the patent issued. 6,244 of the SW shipped in 1965 along with 2,552 of the #10600 Sears knives. Of this 1965 shipment it is unknown how many bore the “PAT. PEND” stamp, or exacly when that stamping stopped.

PAT. PEND. etch was before PAT. PEND. stamp. then PAT. PEND. stamp, then PAT. PEND. stamp and serial (#37669 has this stamp).

These are my conclusions from studying the knives I have seen and the examples of each in my own collection. Keep in mind that I was not there like Henry Baer when these subtile changes were made during those first two years, so my conclusions about this marking sequence is a guess 44 years after the fact, an educated guess, but a guess nonetheless. Every time I think I have the correct answers to the sequence, an exception to the rule of thumb pokes me in the eye (such as knife #37669).

I guess I need to buy a few dozen more of these Deerslayers.

 

[rprocter]

as always a big Thank You Michael. i had read your previous detailed posts on the Deerslayer and used that information to guide my ebaying, but still was unsure of these early markings.
so SVEN is older.
i wonder if SVEN was a Schrade-Walden employee who had "the boys" attach this shield as it was "comin down the line".
i call that "Schrade Dreamin", wondering how a certain Schrade knife came to be.
i hope i'm not the only one who does this, 'cause some might call it "crazy"
roland

 

[Codger_64]

It does not appear to me that your "SVEN" knife has the original blade finish. If it did, it is possible that you might see a Ted Williams signature etch, or some other indication that it was made for Sears or some other retailer as an SFO with a blank shield. The "SVEN" stamping looks like it was done one letter at a time using standard letter punches. The sheath you show with that knife conforms to the sheaths I have seen with the first production of the pattern (does it have the aluminum clad fiber insert too?). The stamping on the tang with no serial number matches my NIB Sears #10600 Ted Williams "Old Timer Hunter".

Mine does have the Old Timer shield, but no blade etch. On my example, the only indication of Sears retail origin is the Ted Williams logo in several places on the box. I have a later one with the signature etch and blank shield. I also have one etched "ZYLCO" with a blank shield and several with Craftsman tang stamps and blank shields.

 

[rprocter]

the sheath has no insert and as a result has a small tear where the tip of the blade has poked through the edge of the leather at the stitching with full insertion.
yes blade has fine horizontal scratches covering both sides. it was cleaned up with something abraisive.
so MAYBE it is an early one before the protective sheath inserts were supplied.
i had been looking for the Ted Williams etched one when i came across this knife. so thanks Codger; maybe i did get a T.W. afterall !
i want to add that in all my Schrade searching, i reference back to Codger threads for the more esoteric details of each pattern. the information gained makes my collecting more fun and more intelligent.
roland

 

[Codger_64]

I appreciate your confidence in my research Roland. But again I must remind everyone, while I do my best to give accurate information from primary sources when available, research does not always yield definative answers. Particularly with regard to minor production changes which we find interesting and worth collecting examples of, but the manufacturer did not deem worthy of documentation. Such "sleuthing" often ends in nothing more than best guesses (hypothesis) based upon available evidence and logic. Those two don't make a hypothesis a fact, though quite often they can lead to a sound theory. Even the best, most sound and plausable theories don't become fact until primary substantial evidence is found.

 

[tow0369]

Alright had posted earlier in another forum, and I was brought here. This is the knife my grandfather gave to me, when he passed away. Trying to find out some more info, and about a rough idea of worth. It has a lot of setimental, I am new to knifes in reference to collecting. It is slightly tarnised, and some sharpining marks on it , my other question is how, and what can I use to clean it up and protect it.

Thanks for any information

 

[rprocter]

tow; a lot of info relating to your knife is in this thread.
the 15OT began production in 1964. yours looks to have "Pat. Pending", no serial #, and "Ted Williams" etch, making it a very early one sold by Sears. sheath is original.
the condition looks very good. i would wipe the blade with a clean soft cotton cloth and then apply a v. light film of mineral oil on blade and tang and store it outside of sheath in a dry place.
as to monetary value, check ebay. these show up regularly, although most will be newer knives than yours. if you do any polishing to the blade, the value to most collectors will decline slightly.
roland

 

[Larry303]

G'day Tow and Roland, I just took some photos of what your Grandfathers complete Old Timer knife package might have looked when he originally purchased it. Tow have you looked right down inside your sheath as Schrade came up with a short term answer to the knife cutting through the leather of that style of sheath which is why they then redesigned short time later. The 2 gizmos I show in the photos are protective wax cardboard sheath insert and also shaped aluminium blade tip protector which went right down the bottom of sheath...how labor intensive was all that?..no wonder Schrade Walden changed the design quick smart....
As to value I have been active Ebay follower/buyer for years and the Fixed Blades are not currently attracting the prices for more scarce pieces that they were 12 months ago for obvious world reasons. I would estimate US $80to US $90 at the moment IF there is a current buyer prepared to pay for its relative scarcity with that early sheath. Please dont clean it,I still have Schrade oil I wipe over with. Dont clean the etch off it will reduce value considerably....cherish your Grandfathers knife that is where the real wealth lies. Hoo Roo

 

[Larry303]

few more photos....P.S. you will see the sheath handle holding strap is later design in The Old Timer paperwork I show...even though its a similar waffel early pattern sheath...The Sharp Finger sheaths were altered excatly the same....so the holding strap like yours and mine could be considered older than that old Schrade Walden paperwork depicts...

 

[tow0369]

Thanks for the pic's, My sheath has the cardboard insert, I have seen that will have to double check for the point guard. I pretty much just plan to clean up the marks on the blade with oil trying to leave the etching alone as much as poissabel and the putting it in a case, although I plan on using his shotgun this yera for some deer so you never know. Thanks Again for all the info..