17.5 inch "blem" WWII - horn handle review

[kookery]

I got my WWII, and I spent the last few days thinking long and hard about what I was going to say in my review. I hate to be the first guy to say that the emperor has no clothes, but somebody has to say it. Everybody knows the blades are good quality. Everything about this kukri screams quality, including the sheath, karda, chakmak, etc. But, there is one fatal flaw: The handle is total crap.

I'm not talking about quality - like I said, everything is quality. The first thing I noticed when I picked it up and waved it around a little in the air was the retarded shape of the handle digging into my wrist and palm. Seriously, a ten year old kid could make a better-functioning handle. I've done it, I've seen it done, and it's brain-dead easy. Here's a good example:

http://www.ramanon.com/forum/showthread.php?57664-Rehandling-a-HI-Chiruwa-Ang-Khola

Notice that in the above example, the hardest part about putting on a new handle is cutting away the original one. That particular re-handle job could be even easier with just more glue and no pins. Basically, just glue a block of wood to the tang and rub it on the curb and sidewalk until it's the shape you like it. That's easy, and vastly better than these fancy horn handles. Here's another example:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1002927-Killa-Zilla-II-gets-Bolt-ons

My WWII was a cheaper cracked-handle version, bought from here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1000346-Three-blems-for-10-12

I'm going to either cut it away and make a new handle for it, or I might put it back on the market for one of you guys to get it. I really like the balance and the forged workmanship, but let's get real. These handles are for people who had no idea there was a better way to do it.

A suggestion for Himalayan Imports: If you can't get the Nepali craftsmen to put a proper handle on the blade, save everyone some time, effort, and hassle, and just start selling the blades without the handles. No more losses due to cracked "blems", and everyone is happy. Traditional handles are fine for collectors, but for people that want to use these kukris (for work or play), putting a labor-intensive inferior handle on them is just wasteful. It's only going to make it harder to put a "real" handle on it.

One thing I noticed is that people don't seem to have much trouble with the pokey handles on the heavy ang kholas. I think that is because the swing speed is slow enough that the user can use a choked-up grip to keep delicate flesh away from pointy handle parts. My WWII is light for its size, and just gently waving it around is enough to cause it to slip down and take a bite out of my hand.

This is monumentally bad design. The handle actually tapers to a smaller diameter towards the end of the handle. That's like trying to hold on to one of those cone-shaped paper cups for water coolers. There's no way to keep a grip on it, it just keeps slipping towards the pointy palm-stabbers at the end of the handle. It's like a watermelon seed - the tighter you squeeze it, the more it slips.

I'm not sure which end of the knife is the most dangerous!

If I can get a better handle on this, then maybe I can do a better review of the more positive aspects of this knife. I might decide to sell it instead.

 

[falar]

I've always found the handles to be very functional.

To each their own I guess.

 

[Shinook]

I'm not talking about quality - like I said, everything is quality. The first thing I noticed when I picked it up and waved it around a little in the air was the retarded shape of the handle digging into my wrist and palm.

I'm going to either cut it away and make a new handle for it, or I might put it back on the market for one of you guys to get it. I really like the balance and the forged workmanship, but let's get real. These handles are for people who had no idea there was a better way to do it.

One thing I noticed is that people don't seem to have much trouble with the pokey handles on the heavy ang kholas. I think that is because the swing speed is slow enough that the user can use a choked-up grip to keep delicate flesh away from pointy handle parts. My WWII is light for its size, and just gently waving it around is enough to cause it to slip down and take a bite out of my hand.


This is monumentally bad design. The handle actually tapers to a smaller diameter towards the end of the handle. That's like trying to hold on to one of those cone-shaped paper cups for water coolers. There's no way to keep a grip on it, it just keeps slipping towards the pointy palm-stabbers at the end of the handle. It's like a watermelon seed - the tighter you squeeze it, the more it slips.

I'm not sure which end of the knife is the most dangerous!

If I can get a better handle on this, then maybe I can do a better review of the more positive aspects of this knife. I might decide to sell it instead.

While I prefer wood to horn, I've found the design to be very good. I have sanded my handles a little hear and there to get a better fit. Mainly on the palm side to prevent the "digging".
As for the blade slipping out of my hand, I have had an issue of that any more than any other handle. Read the threads on proper technique. I've learned that the shape is very good at preventing the knife from flying out of my hand. The way the handle flares out before the end is normally very effective at keeping the knife from slipping out.

I would also like to point out that a more polite way to express how you feel would be preferred in the future.

 

[kookery]

I'm not worried about the knife actually coming out of my hand. The flared ends of the handle ensure that won't happen. I didn't mean to be impolite, just unambiguous and unequivocating. The traditional handle design really really should not be the only available design, especially when better designs are a lot cheaper and easier to produce. In fact, I would pay the same price again for the same knife without a handle and just a handle kit, just so it wouldn't be such a bother to try removing the traditional one to replace it.

I took the advice, and tried the original formula. The things I thought I would dislike are exactly what I actually dislike. The things I thought I would like are likewise exactly what I actually like. Are there ANY serious complaints about Nepali kukris other than the handles? I haven't seen even one complaint. The fact that no one seems to care about the one complaint warrants a much louder voice. These could be great tools instead of fancy novelties that are also functional.

Something different needs to be done. These knives are too good to let them wallow in oppressively-quaint tradition. I can replace my large knife, my hatchet, AND my axe with a single kukri. I have always wanted one of these for that reason, and now that I have it, the one flaw that spoils the perfection is so glaringly obvious I can't gloss over it or pretend it's not that big of a deal - it is a big deal in the absence of anything else to whine about, and luckily it's easy to fix.

So....?

 

[Steve Tall]

When I got my first khukuri, the traditional handle would poke into my hand while I swung it. After reading up about the proper technique and trying it out, I found that I could indeed grip swing the khuk in such a way that my hand was out of the way of the "pointy" top/bottom.

I think the traditional handle shape evolved that way for various reasons. Some people don't like it initially (me included) but learn to appreciate it.

 

[kookery]

Thanks for the info Steve Tall. I've seen the YouTube videos of people chopping away with these, and the ones that make it look easy are the people that have been using the same kukri for years. They all hold the knife in an unnatural way such that it doesn't dig into their hands, so I know it's possible. I figured I would probably be removing the handle, which was why I was so quit to buy one of the nicer "blems" after a little encouraging from everyone. I just wish I had gotten the chiruwa - I didn't realize they normally have such a short tang. That's not a problem with plenty of epoxy, so I'm sure whatever I decide to do, it will work out well.

 

[peak]

Metal files and sand paper does wonder to correct the forms and fits better, I also find that wearing a glove really help with comfort and slippage. There are practically no aftermarket demands on these unless it's from kami bura, so my advice is to rehandle it with micarta. Tirhta are known to produce great steel but crappy finish. My M43 from him are rough on the edges too but it is what it is a blemish, not much to drill on.

 

[kookery]

I didn't notice anything particularly rough in the finish on my Tirtha kukri. It's just the traditional handle shape that needs to be disposed of. I won't have time to put a new handle on this for at least another month, maybe longer, but if I still own it around that time, I'll see what I can do with some micarta. I haven't tried gloves with it, so I'll do that first. If it goes well, I might not bother trying to replace the handle. I suppose I could go crazy with a belt sander and grind off the palm-point that is the most troublesome. That might do the job acceptably well.

It's too bad there's not much aftermarket demand for these. I think the ONLY reason is because of the obsolete handle design. Junky kukris are always for sale on eBay, and a lot of them are more expensive than the high quality Himalayan Imports ones. Cold Steel versions are always good sellers in the aftermarket, and their best models are comparable to the much cheaper Himalayan Imports models. As far as I can tell, the only reason an HI kukri won't sell while Cold Steel will is because CS has more functional handle, even if it isn't as fancy as HI's traditional Nepalese handles.

That's pretty darn sad, by the way. It takes a special kind of failure for a cheaper, better product to get trumped by a more expensive, worse product. Rehandled HI kukris seem to sell fine, though. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's noticing this, but if I am, it's free business advice for Himalayan Imports. I would love to see some improved designs on the market. People love collecting their products, and a few minor improvements can go a long way to fixing the aftermarket values for them.

If you can get back something close to what you spent for it, why wouldn't you want to collect them all?

 

[Shinook]

You don't need to "go crazy with a belt sander". You'd be surprised was a little file and sandpaper work can achieve. Without changing the look much at all, you can improve the comfort greatly with just a few minutes of work.

 

[kookery]

Reading around other parts of the forum, people are saying that the uncomfortable shape is to make the handle more secure while wearing gloves in the Himalayas. It makes sense, though I think there are still better, modern ways, like maybe using a D-guard and/or a lanyard.

 

[Shinook]

Be careful with a lanyard when chopping. If you do somehow drop your Khukuri when swinging, having it swing on a lanyard can be devastating if it swings into you.

 

[kookery]

I was looking at the copyrighted Busse hole next to the choil. A lanyard placed there would make such a swing less devastating, especially since it would rotate the knife such that the spine would hit you instead of the sharp edge. Such a blunder is the kind that would be expected of someone not quite experienced or capable enough to handle the knife. I suppose that's the advantage of an axe. A wild swing just goes into the dirt because the blade is so far away from your body. I've seen plenty of short-handled hatchet accidents, but no axe accidents.

 

[Karda]

This type of thread pains me greatly.
The reason threads like this pain me is because H.I. and It's Kamis have done no wrong here. The product was correctly made and finished. Only because the OP prefers modern designs and materials and finds the handle uncomfortable do we have this thread.
This is not really a review of the H.I. WWII khukuri, but a review/critique of a timeless and time honored traditional handle design. Auntie would rather refund your money on the basis of your disatisfaction, rather than have a negative thread posted to potentially hurt her business.

Himalayan Imports did not design the khukuri, we only strive to produce the finest and toughest traditionally made khukuri to be exported from Nepal. We only strive to produce the traditional design in the traditional manner to help preserve the tradition and craft of khukuri making in Nepal which is slowly dying out due to modernisation and economics. We strive to provide a great opportunity and outlet for any Bishwakarma worth his salt to practice this dying art. Himalayan Imports is not interested in making modern design khukuri with modern materials. We are not interested in modernising our production or techniques. We are only interested in preserving and documenting a nearly 1000 year old history of forging and khukuri making, providing opportunity for our workers and producing the best made khukuri on the market today with the best warranty and customer service.

You don't need to "go crazy with a belt sander". You'd be surprised was a little file and sandpaper work can achieve. Without changing the look much at all, you can improve the comfort greatly with just a few minutes of work.

Good advice.
Take some sandpaper or files to the parts that bother you. Round or soften the parts that dig you. Do so a little at a time, checking often. At some point you will find the handle comfortable if you've been watching and sanding in the right places.
Then work on your understanding of the design and your technique. As you gain more experience with your blade you will come to love the traditional designs as we all have, or you will be one of those whom simply cannot tolerate them and will have to find a product that better suits your preferences. It doesnt mean the traditional design is "crap" or flawed in some way....or that your perception is wrong... just that you are incompatible.

 

[kookery]

We only strive to produce the traditional design in the traditional manner to help preserve the tradition and craft of khukuri making in Nepal which is slowly dying out due to modernisation and economics.

You could do so much more if you let go of the past just enough to produce a product line with better handles. Things change. The best you can do to ensure the tradition and craft are preserved is to sell more kukris. You're already established as the best kukri supplier on earth. The only thing missing is a fair share of the market for them. Inferior competition is beating you because of luxurious ideals that serve no one. A little modern impurity in your product line won't hurt your traditional models, but it will ensure that someone somewhere is always willing to buy them, if only to have an ever-growing collection.

I'm not interested in a return. There is nothing "wrong" with the knife I received. I just want it to have a different handle, and I'm willing to pay for it. It seems unfair that such a nice knife was reduced to $85 because of an obsolete handle design. It's wasteful. The best tradition is smart business. You wouldn't even have a tradition to preserve if you didn't have a business behind it. For 1000 years people have been making kukris because someone was buying them. Think about that for a while before you decide that tradition is more important than business.

 

[falar]

You could do so much more if you let go of the past just enough to produce a product line with better handles. Things change. The best you can do to ensure the tradition and craft are preserved is to sell more kukris. You're already established as the best kukri supplier on earth. The only thing missing is a fair share of the market for them. Inferior competition is beating you because of luxurious ideals that serve no one. A little modern impurity in your product line won't hurt your traditional models, but it will ensure that someone somewhere is always willing to buy them, if only to have an ever-growing collection.

I'm not interested in a return. There is nothing "wrong" with the knife I received. I just want it to have a different handle, and I'm willing to pay for it. It seems unfair that such a nice knife was reduced $85 because of an obsolete handle design. It's wasteful. The best tradition is smart business. You wouldn't even have a tradition to preserve if you didn't have a business behind it. For 1000 years people have been making kukris because someone was buying them. Think about that for a while before you decide that tradition is more important than business.

There are some threads out there about what HI's original goals were (and still are) and making a bunch of money and having a larger market share are not on the list.

 

[kookery]

It must be on a list somewhere, or they wouldn't still be in business.

 

[Karda]

You could do so much more if you let go of the past just enough to produce a product line with better handles. Things change. The best you can do to ensure the tradition and craft are preserved is to sell more kukris. You're already established as the best kukri supplier on earth. The only thing missing is a fair share of the market for them. Inferior competition is beating you because of luxurious ideals that serve no one. A little modern impurity in your product line won't hurt your traditional models, but it will ensure that someone somewhere is always willing to buy them, if only to have an ever-growing collection.

I'm not interested in a return. There is nothing "wrong" with the knife I received. I just want it to have a different handle, and I'm willing to pay for it. It seems unfair that such a nice knife was reduced to $85 because of an obsolete handle design. It's wasteful. The best tradition is smart business. You wouldn't even have a tradition to preserve if you didn't have a business behind it. For 1000 years people have been making kukris because someone was buying them. Think about that for a while before you decide that tradition is more important than business.

Inferior competition is in no way beating us. Those that do their research and purchase wisely will always find H.I. to be the best quality and value per dollar spent. We occupy our niche in the market very well and have been an industry leader, bar none, for working on 25 years, as we speak. Leading in quality and service, Himalayan Imports has paved the way for virtually every other khukuri producer in the market today.
While we are interested in producing new designs and product using traditional materials and workmanship, we are not interested in producing modern khukuri using modern production methods and materials. There will always be a good market for traditional khukuri and we will keep doing what we do best. Your WWII wasnt discounted due to a design flaw. It was discounted and sold as blem because the high desert climate made the handle crack and it was repaired with epoxy.

 

[Shaggy]

Khukuris have been made for "1000 years" because the Nepalese have found that the tool works for them (if it didn't it probably would have been refined into something else over that time period). Kookery, if you do a little research here, you'll find that capturing market share or turning a profit to make wealth for the owners were never a primary consideration for HI; it's always been about giving the kamis an opportunity to provide for their families by doing what they do best. I really applaud Uncle Bill's vision starting and guiding HI to its present form (he was certainly a better man than I'll ever be). If you spend a little time on this forum you'll see HI has quite a loyal following, with new members coming in as old ones pass. HI market share might be small but their dedication to quality is unsurpassed. (Can you think of how many companies have turned to crap when they tried to ramp-up production to capture market share and quality suffered?) If you're not happy, you can modify your khukuri to suit yourself or request a special order to your liking from Auntie Yangdu. If those choices are still unacceptable to you, you can always buy one of those mass-produced KLO's made by companies where busine$$ IS more important than traditions or people.

 

[kookery]

Don't worry, I'm probably going to continue buying Himalayan Imports kukris, for all the reasons you have mentioned.

 

[nitro77]

Khukuris have been made for "1000 years" because the Nepalese have found that the tool works for them (if it didn't it probably would have been refined into something else over that time period). Kookery, if you do a little research here, you'll find that capturing market share or turning a profit to make wealth for the owners were never a primary consideration for HI; it's always been about giving the kamis an opportunity to provide for their families by doing what they do best. I really applaud Uncle Bill's vision starting and guiding HI to its present form (he was certainly a better man than I'll ever be). If you spend a little time on this forum you'll see HI has quite a loyal following, with new members coming in as old ones pass. HI market share might be small but their dedication to quality is unsurpassed. (Can you think of how many companies have turned to crap when they tried to ramp-up production to capture market share and quality suffered?) If you're not happy, you can modify your khukuri to suit yourself or request a special order to your liking from Auntie Yangdu. If those choices are still unacceptable to you, you can always buy one of those mass-produced KLO's made by companies where busine$$ IS more important than traditions or people.

+1 agree. You can talk to Mrs Martino or Karda directly about your problem, if your not that satisfied maybe a special order from HI is the answer..