17.5 inch "blem" WWII - horn handle review

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I've used, and handled khuks of various makes throughout the years, from HI and KH to Cold Steel to Ontario to customs. The HI models, specifically the BAS and WW2 are what I always come back to, and there's nothing in it that's emotional to me at all, but purely practical---I can use the traditional handles, made from traditional materials, longer and more comfortably than I can those made of rubber or shaped like western knife handles. I'm not feeding you a line, I'm really not. Western handles with their round backs and birds-beak pommel shapes end up crushing the small finger and sawing the skin off of the heel of the hand if you use them for more than an hour, in my experience. The traditional ones force you to let the tool do the cutting instead of trying to slam the blade through the wood like an infuriated ape. I did have to learn to use them properly, and it did take time. Yes, I've done some light sanding/reshaping of some that have come my way, but time has told that the least modification possible is my preference. It is only my opinion, but I think it takes a fairly extraordinary amount of arrogance to blanketly proclaim a tool design inferior when it has been in constant use by generations upon generations of people who actually depend on their tools for their very existence, especially when the complaint is coming from somebody who's--I'm willing to bet--something rather more akin to a hobbyist when it comes to working with his hands, who probably heads back into the air conditioning when he gets tired. I don't mean this as derision, my life doesn't depend on a khukuri either (and hasn't depended on a rifle for a number of years now) but again, if I may pull a line from Ben Franklin, I always encourage people to doubt a little of their own infallibility, and not assume that because they do not immediately "get" something right off the bat, it must mean that they're the only smart or honest person who ever looked at it.
 
When I first got into the Kukri I too thought, "what in the world is with this terrible grip!" I also felt it should be fixed. But now as I have figured out the right way you use a Kukri. I fully back Karda and all who use the Khukuri in it's correct way.

Because most westerners and western Knife manufacturers don't understand or care about the traditional Kukri they try to "improve it" and bring it into the modern world by:
a) Adding a guard (for an unnecessary safety)
b) Get rid of the "bell" shape (it's uncomfortable when held tightly)
c) Make it a full-tang (strengthening for powerful western chop)

kookery said:
It's like a watermelon seed - the tighter you squeeze it, the more it slips.
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The reason you are having problems using the Kukri is not the handle it is because you are using a western style tight grip.
The Kukri was designed century's ago in Asia for a relaxed grip. Basically, you use a very loose grip. Just like a fishing cast, it's almost the same motion.
Example:
1.When you chop, you make the forward casting movement. Let the blade itself move in your hand and swing into the target under it's own momentum.
2. Direct the blade and keep it under control. Have the "sweet spot" of the blade hit the wood.
The object is not to power through the wood (as with the western grip) but to let the weight of the Kukri do your work for you in smaller precise cuts.
This way, you gain maximum mechanical leverage, but receive no shock or vibration from the impact.

Western Kukri.jpgBeautiful Kukri.JPG
Left: a "fixed" western influenced Kukri Right: a nice traditional Kukri
I personally will always go with the century's perfected Kukri on the right.
 
kookery said:
You're already established as the best kukri supplier on earth. The only thing missing is a fair share of the market for them. Inferior competition is beating you because of luxurious ideals that serve no one. A little modern impurity in your product line won't hurt your traditional models, but it will ensure that someone somewhere is always willing to buy them, if only to have an ever-growing collection.
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Wow. I mean... wow!
 
Kookery, this is interesting. My two WWIIs have the most comfortable handles I could imagine. They feel made for use to my hand. The flair at the bolster fills my hand very well and the pommel offers plenty of security. I will say, yours (I believe that's yours below) appears less tapered than mine from top to bottom. This could account for the less than optimal feel you're experiencing. Mine felt great from the beginning. The top of the butt plate digging into your wrist or palm is a common problem and takes nothing more than 30 minutes with a file and sand paper. I'd try this and go slow. Power tools are not needed.

Yours
10-12-12007.jpg


HI khukuri and the modern variants are different animals. When you say inferior blades are outselling HI khuks due to HI's designs, it's totally misleading. I would not call the upper end CS offerings inferior, as they are not, but they are very different. Some people like what they offer, whether it be style or modern materials, and that's why they buy them. Some people like what HI/Tora/KH offer and that's why they buy their products. Many of us buy both. If the handle is just totally off for you, you may be one of the people that will like the modern khuks much more. My main complaint about the CS Gurkha is I wish it had a handle shaped like my WWII. The traditional handles feel very good to me. I would give some fine tuning a try. It's very easy and pretty common around here as it can really make the khuk fit your hand. My HI M43 needed some serious handle work, but it proved very simple and enjoyable. Good luck.
 
When I got my first HI kukri I wasn't sure what to make of the handle either BUT after careful research, use and practice I have adapted to the traditional handles. A few of my kukris have required some minor reshaping, in fact my first WWII required a rounding of the top of the pommel. Also once you get used to the ring in the handle you won't want to be without one.

As far as chiruwa handles are concerned I own several of each and once I used both I prefer the standard tang for feel and blade balance.

Play with the handle on your kukri, use it with an open mind to technique and I know you will grow to really like it.
 
I can honestly say that I have found the traditional grip to be just fine.
I started with an HI CAK about two years ago and have added to my collection since.
The only handle that I don't really care for is my 12" model CAK as I find it a bit short, and I have to be careful when my hand goes forward a bit to far.
My girlfriends three nephews have used my khukuris and they have had no issues as well. They range in age from 8-17.
My 16.5-18" khukuris fit my hand the absolute best, with my new GRS and my first order CAK feeling like extensions of my hand.
The belled pommel fits right where it should and never causes me any grief.
I kind of look at traditional khukuris vs modern khukuri the same way that I look at modern blackpowder vs traditional blackpowder----- Some like old and some like new, take your pick and get one too. If it don't fit don't throw a freak, break out the gear and mod and tweak.
I'm just lucky I gues because my HI khukuris have always fit just right.
 
I believe this contains both rhyme and reason...

JOE68 said:
I can honestly say that I have found the traditional grip to be just fine.
I started with an HI CAK about two years ago and have added to my collection since.
The only handle that I don't really care for is my 12" model CAK as I find it a bit short, and I have to be careful when my hand goes forward a bit to far.
My girlfriends three nephews have used my khukuris and they have had no issues as well. They range in age from 8-17.
My 16.5-18" khukuris fit my hand the absolute best, with my new GRS and my first order CAK feeling like extensions of my hand.
The belled pommel fits right where it should and never causes me any grief.
I kind of look at traditional khukuris vs modern khukuri the same way that I look at modern blackpowder vs traditional blackpowder----- Some like old and some like new, take your pick and get one too. If it don't fit don't throw a freak, break out the gear and mod and tweak.
I'm just lucky I gues because my HI khukuris have always fit just right.
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t1mpani said:
Western handles with their round backs and birds-beak pommel shapes end up crushing the small finger and sawing the skin off of the heel of the hand if you use them for more than an hour, in my experience. The traditional ones force you to let the tool do the cutting instead of trying to slam the blade through the wood like an infuriated ape.
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Very helpful insight, thank you.
 
I would really appreciate it if some of the veterans would put together a collection of photos, videos, and instructions to explain the mysteries of the unique traditionalist kukri handles. Comparisons with modern Western designs from Cold Steel, Busse, etc would be really helpful for putting it all into perspective.
 
If it gets moved to the cantina, it should probably be retitled to be about traditional handles instead of as a review of the WWII, since almost nothing I wrote is specific to the WWII.
 
This looks a lot like trolling to me. To open with an obscene denigration, then to insert some praise, then back to underhanded compliments and aspersions on anyone who may favor the traditional design. All this on the equivalent to a showroom floor. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

We don't all see the khukuri the same. Many of us have had custom orders through HI to create our own vision of perfection. Never have I seen one solicited with such rudeness though.

I'll move this to the Cantina. I hope to see it continue in a more gentlemanly manner.
 
kookery said:
...explain the mysteries of the unique traditionalist kukri handles. from Cold Steel, Busse, etc would be really helpful...
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There is no mystery here. The Kukri's handle is a simple but smart design. It encompasses both war and peace, fighting and utility, life and culture in one knife. You don't like it because you don't understand it and as with many foreigners think they can do a better job with that old fashion Kukri. At least you Kookery just want to change the handle. So that's a good sign.

"Comparisons with modern Western designs" As you stated the unique Traditional Kukri handle is just that unique. It does not compare to the hundreds of western type grips for the Seax, the Bowie, the Trench knife, Fallkniven Knives, etc. For the way the Kukri is used as already stated the handle is perfect for it's intended purpose.

"Putting it all into perspective"You wanting to force a modern redesign of the Kukri by Himalayan Imports reminds of what Tecumseh (Shawnee) said at the 1927 Grand Council of American Indians:

"The white people, who are trying to make us over into their image, they want us to be what they call "assimilated," bringing the Indians into the mainstream and destroying our own way of life and our own cultural patterns. They believe we should be contented like those whose concept of happiness is materialistic and greedy, which is very different from our way."
 
You know, I think the reason the experienced ang kola users don't seem to have any trouble with the handle is because the AK's are heavy enough that they would fatigue quickly if they didn't "let the kukri do the work". In watching the YouTube videos, they really seem relaxed in holding the kukri, even though they're penetrating several inches of wood with each chop. Some time in the next couple of months I hope to give my WWII a quick workout, and see how the handle fits with me when I'm actually using it.
 
Howard Wallace said:
This looks a lot like trolling to me. To open with an obscene denigration, then to insert some praise, then back to underhanded compliments and aspersions on anyone who may favor the traditional design. All this on the equivalent to a showroom floor. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

We don't all see the khukuri the same. Many of us have had custom orders through HI to create our own vision of perfection. Never have I seen one solicited with such rudeness though.

I'll move this to the Cantina. I hope to see it continue in a more gentlemanly manner.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

This thread has bothered me quite a bit. I didn't really know how to express that in my first post, but it has been on my mind since. I think trolling is a good label for it. I hate to see someone speak so rudely about the traditional handle without really using the knife, and without trying any of the helpful suggestions offered. I hate to see anyone treat this forum in such a manner. Many of us have found a refuge here with the principles and kindness of Uncle Bill, Yangdu, and all the others who have upheld the principles and standards and have passed along their wisdom freely. HI and this forum are about more than just great knives. Its also about helping others, and doing the right thing.

I hate to rant like this. I hope I haven't been overly rude. I don't think I'll keep following this thread, as I don't see their being anything for me to gain from it.

Kookery, I suggest you spend some time reading through the library here to get a better understanding. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/719860-Himalayan-Imports-Link-Library
 
kookery said:
I would really appreciate it if some of the veterans would put together a collection of photos, videos, and instructions to explain the mysteries of the unique traditionalist kukri handles. Comparisons with modern Western designs from Cold Steel, Busse, etc would be really helpful for putting it all into perspective.
Click to expand...

I wonder if you realize the magnitude of the requests that you are making here and in some of your other postings in this thread.

1. It makes no sense to discuss the design of traditional khukuri handles without providing substantial context about the way they are used and their history. It is usage that determines the success or failure of any design. And it is history that makes a particular design "traditional." So your rather casual request is that someone write a book for you. I'm tempted to say, send me a $10,000 author's advance and I'll give it a try, but frankly I lack the expertise, and also $10,000 wouldn't be enough. Better that you spend a few weeks browsing through the hundreds of postings on this forum that touch on the subject from many different angles. Also the many articles at the HI web site.

2. Why compare khukuri handle design only with "modern Western designs from Cold Steel, Busse, etc."? Why not also compare with knife handle designs from other countries in Asia and elsewhere? Places where people use their knives in everyday work. Also compare with military knives used by modern warriors with a reputation similar to that of the Ghurkas. That could be Volume 2 of the book. And take into account the materials available in those countries and the cost of these knives. Tried buying a Busse "killa zilla" lately? I'd like to have one even though it's too heavy for me to actually use, but the going rate seems to be over a thousand dollars, and you're still just buying a chunk of steel with no special national, cultural or historical tradition to justify such an expense.

3. The khukuri is the national icon of Nepal. There is some variety in khukuri design, including the handles -- but mostly within the tradition. There are families that have been making these knives for generations, kamis who spend 10-20-30 years perfecting this craft, and some who develop it to a high art. HI is firmly within this tradition and when you declare -- on the basis of a few days' handling of one knife -- that HI abandon the tradition in order to make more money and please more Westerners, well, it smacks of cultural arrogance, as others have pointed out. Besides, your "proposal" ignores the fact that you actually can special-order a khukuri from HI with non-traditional features, as long as Yangdu can find a kami who is willing to take that on. The balance might be way off and there's no guarantee that such an order would satisfy you if what you really want is a Busse or Cold Steel handle.

You have a good knife in that WWII. Spend some time with it. Take the advice offered by a number of people in this thread. Adjust your usage technique to match the knife. Maybe try some small modifications such as filing down the sharp edge of the handle ring on the palm side. You'd be surprised how little it takes to stop the ring cutting into your palm. (I've done it to two or three handles and visually you could barely tell the difference.) Some people file off the ring altogether, or you could do a complete rehandle, but there's no need to attack the traditional design as you have been doing.

-- Dave
 
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