18" Kobra...15 oz of pure snake

Eikerværing
I'm sure Mr Holt was not chopping Frozen trees. Was he chopping them that low? Look closely at any photos you have of him working, I'm sure the technique is different than an ax.


" Some basic physics. An elbow has tremendous power. It is close to strong muscle groups in your torso. The khukuri is far out and cannot draw so much power from your body. It draws power more from it's own momentum. It hurts a lot, but will it stop you? Your elbow can put the weight of your body behind it. Lots of pounds in comparison don't you think? "

I'm not sure I understand the entire statement. When swinging any weapon, power comes from the feet, through the legs, torso, chest, shoulder and arm to the weapon. Power is generated by more than just the arm.

I've been an SCA fighter, I've taken some Filipino Martial Arts and some Wu Shu, they all use body motion to hit harder.
 
My 17" 14 oz. village chainpuri can slice, chop, or most naturally, both at the same time combined. It's somewhat lesser angle at the bend allows a punching motion to stab. Or with a slightly different movement "throw" the tip into bone.

I submit that after a well trained person puts the tip thru both sides of an opponent's skull it may very well be easiser to break the blade off than remove it otherwise.

IIRC in training with Cavalry sabers were in some instances used on pine cones placed atop posts while at a gallopfrom horseback. The idea was to strike the rather heavy unopened cones lightly, rather than cut in it in half which would likely leave the blade stuck in the cone, which while moving horseback at 15 or 20+ mph would be likely to a) pull the saber from your hand, b) break the blade, c) break your wrist, d) dislocate your shoulder, e) or unhorse you, or f) two or more of the above . A partially severed neck would do the job while a half cut skull would pull you out of the saddle. Leastways that's what I recollect they said.

Added edits in italics.

Better - now it at least makes more sense to me. Can't guarantee it'll help you.
 
My previous post was made in a hurry. On coming back home I decided it needed some help to make more sense. Decide for yourself, I hope it makes more sense in it's present version.

BTW, my formula of one inch an ounce seems to give a reasonably quick khuk while still allowing for it to be used all around. But notice the near reverence with which those who have khuks of closer to 3/4 ounce per inch refer to them.
 
Rusty, your formula of an inch an ounce is a good one I have come to learn. Interesting story about the cavalry training. I never thought about how things change at higher speed.



Originally posted by Red
I'm sure Mr Holt was not chopping Frozen trees. Was he chopping them that low? Look closely at any photos you have of him working, I'm sure the technique is different than an ax.
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I think too he has not been using it on frozen trees as he lives in England I think (not so cold). But for calling a tool an all rounder then it should be able to be used all round year.

I don't know how Mr Holt chops. His comment on the pictures was something like this: "colour me astonished, but that was exactly the kind of work it is for."



Originally posted by Red

I'm not sure I understand the entire statement. When swinging any weapon, power comes from the feet, through the legs, torso, chest, shoulder and arm to the weapon. Power is generated by more than just the arm.
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You have to be a proffesional martial artist to be able to do something like that. Most people are not. Like Mark Nelson said in this thread, you are smacking someone with a pound of steel in the head, and just that. It sounds painful enough though.
 
I must be brief but will post more later. The elbow that I spoke of happen when the guy that I was fighting and I were both on the ground. He had maybe a foot to move his elbow. In this case the force that he generated was all muscle shoulder, chest, arm. Now I will admit that he was a big boy but body weight didn't come into play on this one. That being said you do not have to be proffesional martial artist to added extra power from the waist. Relax and throw a ball or something it is just how the body moves.
 
Think of the Kobra as an Escrima stick, and rappelling comes to mind. To think of the blow a stick can deliver is frightening enough, but add an edged hunk of Mercedes spring into the equation, and you'll be changing pants.

Modern Arnis teaches excellent techniques,
which can apply to certain edged weapons (short crazy swords).

tech4e.jpg


tech4f.jpg

(from http://www.modernarnis.net/technique/technique.shtml )

Fact of the matter is, when you come out lookin' like this dude...

professor.jpg



Who's gonna mess with you? :D
 
Originally posted by Eikerværing
I have an 18 Gelbu now that is great for work.


Ok, so the shorter Kobra will not bend. But it might break don't you think? After all it is thin. I have this certainty I could manage to break an 18 inch Kobra.


Still I can't imagene some deep slashes in the skull would stop anyone. Stopping someone means inflicting incapabiliting damage to me.

Doing what Ichor said makes sense.
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It's not all about hitting someone over the head with your blade!

Click here for information on other alternatives:
http://www.reddragonmaa.com/KALI TRAINING 12 Angles 1.htm

I'm not necessarily advocating the above site, it's just the first one I ran across looking for an illustration.
 
Rusty, my khuk measures to to about 0.83 oz/inch, which is perfect for me. You would be correct in assuming that I hold this khuk in near reverence.

Of course, I wouldn't use this khuk on trees thicker than 1" in diameter, and certainly not as a prybar. You can't have everything, unless the khuk itself was made out of adamantium, or Howard Clark's L6 recipe.
 
Eikervaering,

Momentum is a product of mass and velocity. When you speak of the "power" of a strike, you are speaking of momentum. Even considering that an elbow may have more mass associated with it, the velocity of a well-swung Kobra will more than make up for decreased mass.

Here's a thought experiment: Hold a bowie knife straight out in front of you and run as fast as you can towards a board of wood, and try to stick the knife into the wood as far as you can. Then throw the knife into the wood. The thrown knife will lack the mass of your body behind it, but its velocity will stick it into the wood farther.

The cortical bone of the human skull is the densest bone in the human body. But a hit with a khuk is much more like a chop with an axe than a slice with a machete. I doubt most skulls could stand up to that.
 
Originally posted by Mark Nelson
That being said you do not have to be proffesional martial artist to added extra power from the waist. Relax and throw a ball or something it is just how the body moves.
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But that is not a whole lot of extra force.

I am able to transfer hip force in a straight punch myself but not in a khukuri chop strike. Remember the khukuri strike tends to go down in a chop. It is not a strike or a throw, it is a chop movement. I think speed and weight of the khukuri is the most important element, just like in Dadao's words.


Originally posted by Gonzo_Beyondo

Think of the Kobra as an Escrima stick
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The pictures look frightening. But an 18 inch Kobra is a lot shorter than that. Less speed and strike.


Originally posted by donutsrule

It's not all about hitting someone over the head with your blade!
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Agreed very much.



Originally posted by Dadao

The thrown knife will lack the mass of your body behind it, but its velocity will stick it into the wood farther.
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That was an interesting thought I must say. But still, how would that work out when your hand and wrist is still attached to the blade? Rusty said something about that cavalry men could end up hurting themselves also by putting an edge into an enemy. So I am just wondering if there is some limit on how much force and speed you can put into a strike with an 18 inch Kobra. What if you hurt your own wrist? Could that be possible?

Originally posted by Dadao

But a hit with a khuk is much more like a chop with an axe than a slice with a machete. I doubt most skulls could stand up to that.
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This is interesting. But I would like to see it tested with an 18 Kobra. When I hold one in my hand I feel like I won't be able to give a lot of power into it in a chop against someone.
 
I have my digital camera back. I just resharpened my 20" about 21oz Kobra (as close as I have to a 18")and went out and bought the biggest dog chew done that I could find. In this case the chew bone is a femer bone from a cow. I will wrap it in a few inches of wet newspaper and I think that we will have a decent test of how well Kobra would do in self defense cuts. I will put one cut through the long part of the bone and then one into the MUCH thicker and heavier joint area. Yes I go into this with safety in mind and the knowledge that I could very well break my Kobra.
 
The pics that follow contain grafic images of dog chew bone destruction. Be warned. In picture one you see the chew bone and the Kobra. Amtrak 20" slightly over 21oz.
 
Pic 3. The dog bone has been wrapped in wet newspaper. If the paper was place flat it would be about 2 3/4 inches thick. Wet and wraped around the bone it was about the size of my upper leg. This is about a 85%-90% force blow while the bone was free hanging by rope in my garage.
 
Another look at the cut. This didn't do much damage to the bone itself. There was a great deal of movement when the bone was struck. About a 1/4 chip out of bone.
 
I sat the bone on blanket that was place on a wood pile. This was so it wouldn't move when I hit it. You can see the effect that it had.
 
This is a pic of the bone after a almost full force shot to the long part of the bone. You may also be able to see the damage from the hanging hit. Once more placed on blanket on wood pile.
 
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