2 Jerry - What is INFI not recommended edge angles.

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Mr. Clean said:
Still not certain is the steel. Two of the same knives from differents troughs are acting the same.
Now that I think about it, bad steel due to heat treat should chip, not roll correct?
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If it is overharden - yes it will chip. If it is overheated let say during sharpening (and my GW has very thick edge) or did not quenched right or whatever - it may be soft.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
wow, 10 people viewing! This is getting a lot of attention!

Not sure if this is cool or not? :confused: :p
 
leatherman said:
wow, 10 people viewing! This is getting a lot of attention!

Not sure if this is cool or not? :confused: :p
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I think I'm sending this one to him for sharpening it is of a higher RC. That way it will have a nice edge when Cobalt gets it back. :thumbup:

2611721635_535c44dd4a_b.jpg
 
Look man, all of us here on the forum are really nice people. But, it's obvious your not impressed with INFI and that tends to get a pretty angry response.So to preserve the continuity of lust we all share towards INFI, do us all a favor and don't post derogatory sentiment on a forum dedicated to celebrating Busse. It's like me coming into your house and telling you I don't like how it's decorated. I'm sure it would be to everyones benefit if you'd find and use another steel, or keep to yourself. Happy travels.
 
nozh2002 said:
If it is overharden - yes it will chip. If it is overheated let say during sharpening (and my GW has very thick edge) or did not quenched right or whatever - it may be soft.
Thanks, Vassili.
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Well, it doesn't really have that thick of an edge though. Take your GW and my AD. My AD is saber cut .20 if I remember correctly. The edge profile is quite different.
A 30 degree Busse edge is an easy accomplishment. I have one on my GW LE, my AD and had one on my FSH I had. The FSH was used to split wood and kindling for out outdoor fireplace and I never sharpened it.
 
nozh2002 said:
This is question to Jerry Busse or other Busse official to clearify knife use. I will appretiate keep this thread quite and intrelligent.

I have 30 degree edge damaged on my Game Warden - you proably know about this - I saw replay in other thread. After all this posts thread was closed. But I have still questions:

1. Does 30 degree angle considered as drastically altered paper thin.
2. If so what agnles range is OK for INFI edge, what angle will not be considered modification, but regular sharpening.

I have number of Busse knives and need to maintain proper edg for theme. I add 30 degree to all and if it is wrong, I need to fix it to prevent similar damage in the future.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Vassili,

Your edge is NOT 30 degrees!. . .

Using YOUR measurements, Your edge angle is 14.45 degrees!!!. . . . And that's pretty darn close to paper thin. . . . :eek:

All Busse blades are hand sharpened and are usually held in the 20 - 25 degree angle range.

If you had not put Cobalt on your ignore list you would have seen where he made very similar calculations to our own in the General forum and this could've been finished before it got started. . .


30 degrees is pretty robust and we wouldn't put that on a small knife unless we were really hammered at the time. . . (Always a possibility when dealing with Busse Combat :eek: :D )

I hope this helps,

Jerry :D
 
Why do some people take it so personally? Dont we all know INFI is tough stuff and can hold it's own against more than just criticism? I read he shouldnt ask these questions in public or that he should have asked the very same question but worded it inversely to be more sensitive to peoples feelings, seriously people, it's like INFI is living in a house of cards, cant we all try to act as strong as the steel we're defending?

Personally I dont think this is characteristic of INFI. I just did some tests with a stainless steel Mora, which I believe is sharpened at 12degrees per side. I chopped it into some very hard seasoned wood and twisted the edge out several times, it rolled the edge giving it a large burr, but no visible damage. I sharpen my INFI to acute angles and use many Scandinavian style knives with edges <30degrees inclusive and never had any edge problems from wood.

I dont think 30 degrees inclusive is unreasonable angel for a small knife and like Yoda I believe this might be a case of something wrong with that particular knife and not an example of how infi behaves as a whole. But then again if Jerry said 30 is too low, and seeing as he's the authority on INFI I'm interested in hearing from him whats too thin for even for carving wood.

I think it's a perfectly legit question and some people just need more faith in the INFI. Remember, it's not #1 in every category, just #1 overall, maybe edge stability on a thin edge isn't it's strongest point at 59-60RHC, in which case....

BRING ON THE BONEY GAME WARDEN!!!

I'm thoroughly impressed with the my BAD sharpened to aprox 35degrees, I ripped apart a mini keg with it which is A LOT thicker than typical cans and it only caused a few little blunt spots.:thumbup:


*edit* the boss hog has spoken before I finished writing.
 
So, do we think Vassili is gonna show up and tell Jerry he's wrong (about his knives) or simply put Jerry on ignore for disagreeing with him? :foot::foot::foot:
 
Justabuyer said:
You know Busse already addressed this with the Boney ADs. They were very thin for a Busse and per Busse required a harder blade to support the thin edge. So says BUSSE!

I agree. I have found that when I made a edge to thin on normal Infi it rippled pretty easy.

According to Busse, and my experience anyway. I also think BAN noted this as well at some point.

Perhaps people need to step back and take a deep breath.
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well, since you bring this up, my ASH 07 SE had an edge ground thinner than my BAD. it chopped tough wood just fine (one barely noticeable roll was all i could find)
 
Tony G said:
I think I'm sending this one to him for sharpening it is of a higher RC. That way it will have a nice edge when Cobalt gets it back. :thumbup:

2611721635_535c44dd4a_b.jpg
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The factory edge on that knife is already razor sharp. you touch that edge and you better start running....:D
 
Jerry will respond anytime now. Hold tight, he's Drinking! :)
And then again, maybe he won't respond. :O
 
Ankar Sheng said:
Jerry, when you discuss the edge angle are you referring to the angle per side or inclusive?
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I'm assuming that is inclusive. One thing I'm sure of without having to do the math myself is that there is no way in heck the knife Nozh pictured here is anywhere near 30 degrees. Just looking at it is enough to tell that an answer of 30 degrees signifies either a mathematical error or an error in the initially input measurements.
 
Jerry Busse said:
Vassili,

Your edge is NOT 30 degrees!. . .

Using YOUR measurements, Your edge angle is 14.45 degrees!!!. . . . And that's pretty darn close to paper thin. . . . :eek:

All Busse blades are hand sharpened and are usually held in the 20 - 25 degree angle range.

If you had not put Cobalt on your ignore list you would have seen where he made very similar calculations to our own in the General forum and this could've been finished before it got started. . .


30 degrees is pretty robust and we wouldn't put that on a small knife unless we were really hammered at the time. . . (Always a possibility when dealing with Busse Combat :eek: :D )

I hope this helps,

Jerry :D
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OK, My angle which is bit over 30 degree total (because it is convexed) or 15 degree per side

edge-for-Busse.jpg


is considered as paper thin and should not be used on knives with INFI.
So damage I have - expected on this angle and I should not sharpen it this way.

Thanks Vassili.

I guess I was talking about this angle in terms of Spyderco Sharpmaker - they have two settings one 40 degrre (20 per side) and another 30 degree (15 pre side). I was using Sharpmaker a lot at the beginning and this is why I use this angle as a standard for all my knives as well as using this term.
 
Ankar Sheng said:
Jerry, when you discuss the edge angle are you referring to the angle per side or inclusive?
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Per side. This is the angle that all knife sharpening systems use. If there are sharpening units that use a different calculation, I am not familiar with them.

For example, the Ready-Sharp instruction manual gives the following guidelines:

"A 30 degree angle works well for wide bladed knives that will get a lot of abuse and will reduce the chance of chipping your blade"

"A 16 degree angle works well for filet knives, replaceable broadhead blades, and razor blades."

Here's the best online angle calculator that I have found.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html

The biggest problem with trying to figure out which angle Vassili hit is that we are using his rough measurements. INFI will do fine for slicing at a 14.5 degree angle. However, prying against any steel at this angle is asking for trouble. The other part that confuses folks are the super-sized pics that show the micro indentations or bends in the edge. If the pics were shown in actual size, these would be nearly invisible to the naked eye...

I have dealt with similar situations in the past when extremely enlarged photos were posted of a dent or chip in the edge of a large knife. . . When we received the knife back, this supposed "monster chip" was smaller than half the diameter of the lead in # 2 mechanical pencil or .0135" deep (or the thickness of 3 1/2 sheets of common paper) . . . :eek:

Posting extremely magnified pics and then making declarations about how poorly INFI performed is VERY misleading and it gets a bit frustrating for those, including myself, who then have to spend so much time putting out the flames.

It really comes down to the perceived intent of the poster. Not the actual intent. . . just the perceived intent.

Posting these pics in a thread about Busse verses Fehrman not only doesn't make any sense since there was no direct comparison between the two different steels under similar circumstances, but comes off as someone who is trying to misrepresent their results at our expense and for the benefit of the other mentioned party. :confused:

I think the language barrier is a problem for Vassili and I don't necessarily think his intent is malicious. However, unblocking the forum members who either disagree with him or challenge his findings would go a long way in clarifying his intent.

If someone is truly in need of an answer from us about expected performance, then why not either email us directly, or put it in a thread that is addressing this issue?

Now, Let's all drink and enjoy our holiday!!!! :thumbup:

Jerry :D



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