2 new prototypes in the works - Trapper and Pocket Nessie

Discussion in 'Koster Knives' started by Daniel Koster, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. Daniel Koster

    Daniel Koster www.kosterknives.com Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 18, 2001
    That's always been the #1 goal = quality on par with something I would make here in my shop. Having it made by a knife company would get "their #1 goals" instead of mine.

    This is the right way to do it. It's not for everybody and it's definitely not going to be easy - especially this first time around. But I'm not going to do it if it doesn't meet that #1 goal first.

    :thumbup:


    10 years ago you didn't see hardly any knifemakers maintaining order lists online - available to the public to see. I helped pioneer that because it is the *right way to do it*. It hasn't always been popular and hasn't been headache-free for me...but in the end it has helped me tremendously. And now I can name dozens of other knifemakers following suit - working in batches and making their order lists public. I'm not looking to take credit for it...on the contrary, I'm grateful to see others using it because it is one of those things that is helping the custom/handmade knife business push through the recession....adapt to survive.

    Dan
     
  2. copenhagen69

    copenhagen69

    32
    Feb 13, 2013
    I love the transparency here ... one question though, where would these online order lists be for the public to see? Just curious ... if I missed it and it is obvious I will blame my glasses and me being blind for it :) haha
     
  3. Daniel Koster

    Daniel Koster www.kosterknives.com Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 18, 2001
    They are posted in the first posts of each new knife's thread.

    For example - for the ShortNess: http://kosterknives.com/ShortNess.htm

    I haven't gotten around to linking to them directly from my website because I'm in the middle of changing how I publish these lists (using a new system soon) and don't want to have to redo all the work twice. (me = lazy) :D

    Dan
     
  4. ras

    ras

    Jan 9, 2002
    Dan -- 12C27 seems to get good reviews. How would it compare to 440B (rather than 440C) from a manufacturing and cost effectiveness POV?
     
  5. Bigfattyt

    Bigfattyt Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 23, 2007
    Both look great.

    I see some elements of your EDC in that trapper handle. I tested out two versions in the pass around. They were the most comfortable handles on that size knife I have ever used!
     
  6. Daniel Koster

    Daniel Koster www.kosterknives.com Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 18, 2001
    12c27 is more expensive than 440B and cannot be stamped as easily as 440B. That said, it is still available in large rolls (think 30 tons) and available for manufacture.

    But the most important factor is that it can be hardened to high 50s whereas 440B and 440C often are set around 50 HRc tops. Usable, but edge-holding is not great.

    440B can be stamped after hardening. Easier to work and grind, etc.

    Dan
     
  7. ras

    ras

    Jan 9, 2002
    Thanks Dan. Just waiting for the Trapper list to order.
     
  8. Jeff Jenness

    Jeff Jenness

    123
    Sep 2, 2010
    Dan,

    Don't understand your comment about 440C being hardened to around 50 HRC. 400C is considered a pretty high-quality stainless and usually hardened between 55 to 60 HRC and seemingly 57-59 ordinarily on better quality knives. Even 440B is usually over 55 HRC. It's not until you dip down into 440A that the hardness drops to the low 50's HRC, even from decent manufacturers.

    That said, I've heard that 12C27 is very clean steel and I'm guessing that this is why I've always been able to get very keen edges on it. It seem really easy to sharpen and holds a very decent edge given the carbon content. As you point out, this steel can be (and usually is) hardened 57-60 HRC. So, I am behind you all the way on 12C27. It's a nice choice. I think of 12C27 as a "little brother" to 440C but seemingly performs as well in many aspects. I think it's a great usable steel.

    I'm sure you know all this!!! Just wanted some context here so I can understand you.

    Jeff
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  9. Daniel Koster

    Daniel Koster www.kosterknives.com Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 18, 2001
    When you look at the broad picture - as I have been doing the last few years - you find way too many 440B knives hardened only to 49-51 HRc (very common, actually). And I'm now starting to see more and more 440C knives with those numbers as well. 440C can certainly be hardened to 57+ HRc relatively easily...but once you cross 52 HRc, manufacturing post-heat-treat becomes much more expensive. Now, remember, I'm talking about knives in the "under $50" category....not Benchmade/Spyderco/etc. Nearly all of the midrange and higher-end 440C knives are 57+ HRc.
     
  10. Tbaggin

    Tbaggin

    399
    Apr 29, 2012
    Excited to see this work out!
     
  11. Daniel Koster

    Daniel Koster www.kosterknives.com Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 18, 2001
    Re: 12c27 vs. 440C


    Both are great steels. As you noted, 12c27 is more refined with a tighter grain structure. It is easier to sharpen and holds a keen edge longer...as well as being "tougher" (impact strength).

    Remember, increases in carbon content doesn't necessarily equate with increased performance. In this case, the lower carbon % is what allows for the more refined structure.

    With 440C you get better wear resistance. This is generally regarded as meaning less frequent sharpening required. But if it comes at a cost of a more coarse grain structure, then have you really gained anything? You still have to sharpen nearly as frequently and if you have a tendency to "let the knife go" and use medium stones more often, then you won't really notice any performance benefits.

    I think that's there is a notion that 12c27 is "less than" 440C...yet when folks have a chance to own a knife in 12c27 hardened to 59 HRc they are pleasantly surprised because they can rely more on fine honing/stropping rather than medium to medium-fine resharpening.
     
  12. Daniel Koster

    Daniel Koster www.kosterknives.com Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 18, 2001
    For the record, I haven't been able to get any factories to agree to manufacture 3V steel blades for me. :D
     
  13. Jeff Jenness

    Jeff Jenness

    123
    Sep 2, 2010
    Well, I understand your context and wondered if it was from the manufacturing perspective you were talking about. Clearly, I was on the side of upper-end production (Benchmade/Spyderco) where they are 57+ HRC for the 440C blades. Now I see you were comparing these steels within the same manufacturing process which makes sense. I am glad that you would choose 12C27 if you are going to run at the higher HRC. With your designs and attention to detail, it will make one helluva knife!

    Thanks, Dan!

    Jeff
     
  14. Daniel Koster

    Daniel Koster www.kosterknives.com Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 18, 2001
    Indeed. Whatever steel we end up with will be hardened to 58-59 HRc. :thumbup:

    Dan
     

Share This Page