20 gauge buckshot

eccvets said:
I suggest 00 buck with slugs on every other round. If you miss, too bad so sad for people other then you. Sh*t happens and if you need to down some one, accept no substitute for the biggest load you can possibly get!
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That is nearly as bad as the birdshot suggestion.
 
mack_t_knife said:
After reading those great web references, both "The Box of Truth" as well as the archived thread on Blade Forums, it's hard for those researching to know which way to turn.

We all know what we know, some of us only have what we have read.

Reality street, your TAX DOLLARS at WORK from FLETC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ievbU3xIYGQ (No water jugs used, sorry)

The first shot fired, the first shot to connect, the first shot to incapacitate the opponent.

Three huge hurdles. Surprising how many targets just didn't know they were dead.

http://www.fugly.com/videos/8087/guy_shoots_lawyer_behind_tree.html
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Summary

Video 1 - Birdshot sucks on people. If you want to do damage go with a Slug or Buckshot.

Video 2 - That lawyer can dance!
 
For a home defense buckshot load, the only really readily available 20 gauge offering is #3 buck. When my go to shotgun was a 20, I would have had no problem trusting that stuff.
 
ADD said:
Uh, no, it is not.
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I said nearly as bad. Advocating maximum penetration in home defense is irresponsible unless you live in the boonies with no close neighbors. Advocating birdshot is just stupid unless you find yourself in an Alfred Hitchcock movie.
birds.jpg
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
I said nearly as bad. Advocating maximum penetration in home defense is irresponsible unless you live in the boonies with no close neighbors. Advocating birdshot is just stupid unless you find yourself in an Alfred Hitchcock movie.
birds.jpg
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Dude! Ya never know :D
 
20's are ok but i still like 12 better, the new tactical buckshot loads dont recoil much (if any) more than a 20, and really a 12 isnt bad, with std loads anyway, my 5'2 110 lb wife loved to shoot skeet w/a 12 so if ya wanna learn to handle it most can imho.

but 20's are good too, my wife had a ithaca 20 w/a 18" bbl (which i still have) and i can think of worse to have in a bad situation.

of course i would load it with buck not birdhsot,
 
lazerboy2000 said:
I keep my Beretta 20Ga loaded with #2 steel shot.
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Ok, but that is still birdshot, ya know? Birdshot goes sizes 9-1 (getting bigger) then B, BB, BBB, T, TT, F, and FF. Also, steel is not preferred for self defense. Although it is harder and maybe better at penetrating, lead has the energy advantage due to it's increased density.

#2 is 0.15 inches dia per pellet

Buckshot goes #4 to 0, then 00, 000, and 0000 (also getting bigger).

2 buck is 0.27 inches per. Double aught is 0.33 inches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell
 
Number 4 shot is .224 in diameter or 22 caliber. The load I currently carry on duty has 27 of those .22 pellets in a 12 gauge 2.75 inch shell rated at 1350 fps. Wow! Twenty-seven 22 pellets smoking out at close to 22 long rifle velocity. I still vividly remember the first person I ever shot with such a load when I was a young private in the Army. A prisoner on a work detail wigged out and tried to 'brain' me with a pick mattock (a pick axe). I fired at him at about eight feet and actually blew off his left leg just above the knee and crippled his right leg almost beyond saving. Fifty plus years later I still have that scene vividly in my mind. So I have 'tended' toward Nr 4 buckshot ever since. I recently shot some Nr 4 with my detective partner out in the desert. We were both stunned/surprised/gratified to see a 'blast' of dirt on the berm at least 30 feet wide and ten or more high at 100 yards and it got there real quick! I would have hated to be within that blast.
 
If birdshot was such a great stopper with less threat to bystanders the Law Enforcement Legal Departments would have every shotgun in every cruiser loaded with trap loads. Yes, at arms length birdshot creates a rathole wound but at ten yards it is far less effective. It is not not just the physical diameter on the pellets it is the weight that matters. Birdshot does not have enough mass to penetrate well and sheds energy very quickly.

The twenty gauge can be a very effective shotgun for HD but it can be hard to find loads for. Federal makes a buckshot round loaded with 18 pieces of #2 buck. Number 2 is .27 inches, you can compare that to 00 which is .33 inches. The federal load is a 1100fps load btw. This is not a mall ninja super fleshette round as someone suggested but rather it is one used by a number of PDs that use a twenty gauge for their LEOs.

I use a 12 gauge with 00 for self defense but I would not feel underarmed with a 20 with #2 buckshot either. I use a 12 for several reason, biggest reason being my shotgun serves several purposes including skeet & trap shooting and other shotgun competitions. It doesn't just sit at home but gets shot fairly often throughout the year. Also my 20 gauge is an O/U, not really suitable for HD.

I will add that I feel a shotguns roll in HD is as a barricade weapon, not as a firearm to clear a house with. There is no way to have a shotgun in a ready position and not have it vulnerable to take away when going through doors or around corners and can be very difficult to utilize in a hallway if you have to turn around. My shotgun is located on the side of the bed away from the door to place the bed between me and a BG. If I feel the need to clear the home I use a handgun.

In short your 20 will work fine for HD with the aforementioned Federal #2 buckshot loads.
 
Old CW4 said:
Number 4 shot is .224 in diameter or 22 caliber. The load I currently carry on duty has 27 of those .22 pellets in a 12 gauge 2.75 inch shell rated at 1350 fps.
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NO! This is exactly what I'm talking about. 4 shot is 0.13 dia. NOT .224!

Read the tables.

4 BUCK is 0.24 inches. By mis-stating that you are perpetuating the "Birdshot works" myth. BTW, 4 Buck is the smallest buckshot. So if you are loading 4 Buck, you can brag about using the smallest buck available.

Also, I think a lot of people think 8 shot is better than 00 Buck because 8 is a bigger number than 00 and bigger is better.

REMEMBER: Buckshot and Birdshot are on TOTALLY DIFFERENT SCALES!

Edit; Ok, I see you used the word buckshot in your 9th sentence.
 
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eccvets said:
I suggest 00 buck with slugs on every other round. If you miss, too bad so sad for people other then you. Sh*t happens and if you need to down some one, accept no substitute for the biggest load you can possibly get!
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No hate here..

However, loading this way is not very smart at all! To much to keep track of. Either load only slug or only Buck. If you miss target w/00 then more than likely your going to miss with a slug

Myself I load buck (I perfer #4) then carry a side saddle with slugs only its easier to single load a slug if you need it.

Dbl Aught has its place and its fans but its all about spread (pattern) I've seen many a coyote seem to step over and around 00 w/o a hit in the field. But with #4 buck it gets them every time.

ST~
 
To XDSHOOER, Please don't confuse Nr 4 (standard shot), a small and medium game load, with Nr 4 BUCKSHOT. Nr 4 Buck, is indeed .224 or 22 caliber round balls and they are a wicked anti personnel (or anything else) load.
 
Old CW4, You must be a lot older than me. When I was in the army back in 79-83 we used nothing but 12 ga, 2 3/4th inch 00 buck, whether guarding prisoners or working patrol. If #4 was around I don't remember seeing it.

We used to use #4 buck in the prison system where I worked for over 15 years but had to switch due to #4 bucks lack of stopping power. Inmates were regularly getting over the fence and away with pellets in them. One with 7 pellets made it to another state before being caught. I personally have seen it's ineffectiveness.

I wouldn't use #4 buck if you paid me. Even #1 buck is insufficient past about 5 to 7 yards shooting at people.

The only round that has been effective every time it's used so far on the fences here where I worked to stop people is .223 55gr sp. Nothing else.
 
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Old CW4 said:
To XDSHOOER, Please don't confuse Nr 4 (standard shot), a small and medium game load, with Nr 4 BUCKSHOT. Nr 4 Buck, is indeed .224 or 22 caliber round balls and they are a wicked anti personnel (or anything else) load.
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Huh? Re read your own post. You sir are the one who in the first sentence stated that number 4 shot is the size of 4 buck.

I'm not confused at all. Just use the correct terminology, and you won't come off looking like YOU don't know what you're talking about.

Besides, no one calls 4 buck "number 4" or "number 4 buckshot".
 
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