20CV Steel

bigolegator said:
Forum, looking to get a synopsis with pros and cons on this steel, and how it compares with use to S30V, M4, Cru Wear, etc. No need to get super-scientific on it...I’m just not familiar with it and I know members on here are so...Thanks in advance for the info and knowledge :) :thumbsup:
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It's identical to M390/204P. It is a very good steel and can be maintained for a long time with stropping only. You really only have to sharpen it if you get chips or edge deformation. I definitely noticed a difference between it and s30/s35. S90 and S110 are similar in function, but will take longer to sharpen and may chip more.

M4 and cruwear are different beasts altogether. If you don't have any concerns with rust or you plan to force patina, then m4 might hold an edge longer. It won't be as easy to sharpen because m4 is a tricky steel. It tends to not want to break the wire edge off when you try to deburr and you have to get use to it. Cruwear is easy to sharpen and deburr, but it loses that ultra sharp edge quicker than m390 and m4. It maintains a working edge forever it seems, but it doesn't respond as well to simply stropping (in my experience)

I prefer M390/204P/20CV in stainless, M4/Hap40 is still my top non-stainless/semi-stainless because you can get it fairly easily. Rex45 is better in my experience, but you are limited on getting your hands on that since it is only sprint spyderco atm.
 
20CV (and 204P and M390) are good steels, but they are not fun steels. They lose a keen edge extremely fast, but hold a working edge for bloody ever. Super easy to sharpen, super easy to touch up or strop back to sharp, great corrosion resistance and decent toughness. Similar to Elmax, S35VN, and XHP, it doesn't care if it is refined or toothy.

I'm not a huge fan of M390 just because it has very low keen edge retention. I'm all about steels that hold the refined edge for surprisingly long, and M390 is not that steel. I still respect it for the great properties it has, it's just not my preference, but we all have qualities that we prefer in steels.
 
Deinos said:
objectively? or lustfully?
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Well, I guess it's the classic 110 design: back-lock and so on and so forth . But, yeah, lustfully, it is in CPM20CV and looks absolutely freaking beautiful. Sooooo...

[Like many here, I am sentimentally attached to 110's]
 
madcap_magician said:
Bless me, father, for I have sinned. I have committed adultery in my heart and will continue doing so until I finally give in or SK Blades sells out, whichever happens first.
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No need to fight it, be like Nike and just do it ;) , I wonder how many were just sold because of that damn picture that Makael Makael posted :D

To stay on point, I’ve not had any issues with 20CV. Between 20CV, M390 and 204P, it’s becoming very common to see these steels in a variety of popular brand knives, that should tell you something.
 
Ajack60 said:
No need to fight it, be like Nike and just do it ;) , I wonder how many were just sold because of that damn picture that Makael Makael posted :D

To stay on point, I’ve not had any issues with 20CV. Between 20CV, M390 and 204P, it’s becoming very common to see these steels in a variety of popular brand knives, that should tell you something.
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I'd have already given in if it were a clip point. I really love the 110 clip point.

I agree about CPM20CV, M390, and CTS204P, I think those are our new baseline super steels the same way that S30V was fifteen years ago.
 
Lapedog said:
Btw it has a tougher brother steel called Elmax.
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I'm searching info about comparative toughness of Elmax and M390/cts204p/20CV.
I heard several times Elmax should be toughest than M390 (but a bit less wear resistant) but I haven't found technical info about this claim.
Do you have a reference?
 
patrickguignot said:
I'm searching info about comparative toughness of Elmax and M390/cts204p/20CV.
I heard several times Elmax should be toughest than M390 (but a bit less wear resistant) but I haven't found technical info about this claim.
Do you have a reference?
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There are many charts that compare the properties of various steels. Unfortunately alot of these charts are just based on virtually nothing and are also often just wrong. If you read Ankerson’s edge retention tests he goes through a ton of tests just to determine something about edge retention. A something that he and anyone honest admits is also very imperfect.

So the best place to get an idea about the steels is often the steel producer’s info. If we look at the composition m390 and Elmax we can see that Elmax is the “little brother” of m390. This is because both steels have a very similar composition of elements, except Elmax has a little bit less of most elements than m390. The more carbide forming elements in a steel the less tough it tends to be. So because Elmax has less of each of these carbide forming elements it tends to be tougher. However these carbides are what makes the steel more wear resistant.

Part of what makes carbon steels tend to be tough is that they have relatively few alloying elements. So we can sort of say that the more alloying elements in a steel the less tough it is going to be. That is a gross overgeneralization because things like which alloying elements and whether or not it is a powdered steel also have an effect on how tough a steel is.
 
bigolegator said:
Forum, looking to get a synopsis with pros and cons on this steel, and how it compares with use to S30V, M4, Cru Wear, etc. No need to get super-scientific on it...I’m just not familiar with it and I know members on here are so...Thanks in advance for the info and knowledge :) :thumbsup:
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Won't rust like M4.
Edge lasts longer than S30V and cru wear.
Less hard to sharpen than all of them.
Won't chip like S30V.
 
patrickguignot said:
I'm searching info about comparative toughness of Elmax and M390/cts204p/20CV.
I heard several times Elmax should be toughest than M390 (but a bit less wear resistant) but I haven't found technical info about this claim.
Do you have a reference?
Click to expand...
Zknives.com
They have a chart that compares the composition of the metal like how much carbon, chromium, Vanadium etc.

For toughness it depends on the heat treatment.... But search
Elmax datasheet
20cv datasheet

These datasheets will give you an approximate number based on hrc if the mfg followed the datasheet for ht.

Elmax has less Vanadium iirc than 20cv. It's got good stainless has better toughness but less edge retention.

Like anything... Some blade finishes will speed up corrosion.. Like stonewashed. If it's a mirror polish it's less likely to pool but run off while stonewashed is more likely to pool water. Even so m390 level steels is easy to clean it off and it doesn't really rust. Might get a bit foggy if that.
 
20CV/M390/204P are beloved steels, and for good reason. They hold an edge for a long time but are not as hard to sharpen as S90V or S110V (especially!).
 
mordhaus said:
It's identical to M390/204P. It is a very good steel and can be maintained for a long time with stropping only. You really only have to sharpen it if you get chips or edge deformation. I definitely noticed a difference between it and s30/s35. S90 and S110 are similar in function, but will take longer to sharpen and may chip more.

M4 and cruwear are different beasts altogether. If you don't have any concerns with rust or you plan to force patina, then m4 might hold an edge longer. It won't be as easy to sharpen because m4 is a tricky steel. It tends to not want to break the wire edge off when you try to deburr and you have to get use to it. Cruwear is easy to sharpen and deburr, but it loses that ultra sharp edge quicker than m390 and m4. It maintains a working edge forever it seems, but it doesn't respond as well to simply stropping (in my experience)

I prefer M390/204P/20CV in stainless, M4/Hap40 is still my top non-stainless/semi-stainless because you can get it fairly easily. Rex45 is better in my experience, but you are limited on getting your hands on that since it is only sprint spyderco atm.
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I love reading your experience with the Cruwear vs the M390,what was the edge finish and what stones?
 
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