.223 Effective and humane on white tail deer?

Shot placement is the key.It would work fine if you are a good shot.
Here the min Cal that can be used is .24 centerfire but if it has not changed .223 can be used in GA.
I have heard that more deer have been taken with .22 rimfire than any other cal.
 
Some have said that the .223 was adapted to the military as it is known to wound, it is not a suitable for big-game hunting, IMO.

We all know that the 30-30 takes a ton of deer every year, we also hear of well placed shots being ineffective with the 30-30 ?

The 30-30 has more energy at 100 yards then the .233 leaves the muzzle with!

Some will say that it takes at least 1300 foot/#'s to do the trick on small - medium deer, at 100 yards the best I see is the +60Gr-.223 bullets holding near 1000foot#'s of energyat that range.

Gotta admit that .223's come in some exciting rifles , but the lowest in my book, the 30-30 whoops 1360foot#'s at 100 Yards.

Bragging rights start when you hang one in a tree, what is the prize for leaving a little blood-trial in the woods?

Just my opinion, I am truly a at odds with this ,read the ballistic charts?

But I would like to take a nice lower lung/upper heart shot (in the breadbasket) deer with a hot .223 hand-load!

Just a question, if i may?

Are DNR's and Division's of Wildlife trying to promote more hunters by opening up the excepted min. (allowing .223's , Minnesota just adopted it, as other mid-west states) for weapons?
 
u812 said:
Shot placement is the key.It would work fine if you are a good shot.
Here the min Cal that can be used is .24 centerfire but if it has not changed .223 can be used in GA.
I have heard that more deer have been taken with .22 rimfire than any other cal.
Click to expand...

Good point!

Having guided an elk hunt for some GA residents, they were telling me that they have hunted deer with #00 buck-shot. It is just my guess that that practice is no longer allowed?

If times get real hard, I would expect the .22 and flash-lights being a preferred method for the consumption of deer? It's my guess that the number-one method today is still passenger vehicles?
 
The .223 is neither effective nor humane for large game.

The round has too little cross sectional density to be an effective killer of large game, it simply cannot provide the foot pounds of energy needed to humanely put down a large animal with anything but a good head or high spine shot, both of which are very difficult to accomplish. We all know that the American Eskimo used .22 rimfires on game and Karamojo Bell used a .275 Rigby (similar to the 7X57 Mauser) to harvest hundreds of elephants, that does not mean they were using the best tool for the job.

The .223 round only brings about 1300 lbf of energy with a 77grain bullet to the table, by comparison the .308 loaded with a 180 grain has about 3000lbf of energy. Another way to look at it is using the Taylor Knockdown Formula...

TKO value = [ Weight (gr) x Terminal Velocity (fps) x calibre (in) ] ÷ 7000

Here we see a .233 again with a 77 grain bullet has a TKO of 6.7 and the .308 with the 180 grain has a TKO of 21.7. A .357 180 grain from a 6 inch barrel has a TKO of 10 btw.

The results of this simply means the .223 does not carry the energy needed to humanely put down large game with a good hit in the heart/lungs area. If a raking shot is required it probably won't even reach the vitals. As Robert Ruark said "use enough gun".
 
I live in KY and most folks I hunt with use 30-06 or similar. .223 is legal to hunt with in KY and neighboring VA but is not legal to hunt with in neighboring TN. Tennessee you have to at least use a .243 or bigger for Whitetail. Can .223 be used for hunting deer? YES. Recommended. NO.
 
I think most people have answered yes it can be used but in general it is not very humane. Unless you are a dead accurate shot on a moving target.
 
Jax, I asked a GW here in VA about the .223. He said it is illegal to hunt deer with a .223, being that the bore diameter is still .22. A .243 is the legal lowest caliber. This is a FWIW, and only the word of one GW I met a few years ago.
 
SPXTrader said:
Jax, I asked a GW here in VA about the .223. He said it is illegal to hunt deer with a .223, being that the bore diameter is still .22. A .243 is the legal lowest caliber. This is a FWIW, and only the word of one GW I met a few years ago.
Click to expand...

You may very well be right, I'm going off what someone I know who hunts there told me. I'll ask my good friend tomorrow who is a GW here in KY if he knows for sure. It's possible the laws have changed in a few years as well and made it legal. I'll find out.
 
Please, use enough gun. While the .223 can combine light recoil and great accuracy, it lacks the punch for reliable kills of deer at normal ranges. If you have to use the .223 or it is your only rifle, try using heavy bullets and head shots. Yes, you'll hear the tales of the mighty .220 swift etc. What you don't hear much about are the deer and other game that bled to death slowly following a poor or under-powered hit.

Why not use a 30-30? More horsepower when you need it, and a proven round for even the largest of deer extant.
 
As a retired game warden I've killed a lot of critters with a lot of weapons. That includes a sap and flashlight. A 22 to the ear, or with a spotlight up close, can work well. A .223, with well placed shots and the right ammo will work okay. But why push it? A wounded animal that gets away is simply that. It will die slowly and be wasted, and it doesn't matter if it was shot with a .338 mag.

As to 5 round mags, I've checked a lot of states, starting with CA. When I retired no such law existed. Check you game dept. It's mostly an old wives tale. Shotguns are different, but I haven't found a law about 5 round rifle mags. Some states may have one, so check, but unless they do, a 30 rd mag is legal. Except in CA, 10 rd.

Gene
 
I've no problem with 5.56 NATO, an M4 would be fine, after all it's all placement, I've put 7 down with this round, 1 head, 6 heart lung, well there was a problem, 1 critter ran 40 yds, with half a heart, a.224 round doesn't leave much of a blood trail to follow...G.
 
u812 said:
I have heard that more deer have been taken with .22 rimfire than any other cal.
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I believe that is one of those urban legend type gun myths that will continually float around. Fish and Game keeps statistically significant records, the likelihood that the .22 has done all that is downright preposterous. Even if you consider poaching, which isn't done all that much compared to the whole United States and legal hunting therein it just isn't remotely likely.

This isn't meant as an attack on you U812, just trying to kick a myth when I see it. (kinda like that rusty ak-47 that sat in mud for a year and still worked seen in another thread).
 
Absintheur said:
The .223 is neither effective nor humane for large game.

The round has too little cross sectional density to be an effective killer of large game, it simply cannot provide the foot pounds of energy needed to humanely put down a large animal with anything but a good head or high spine shot, both of which are very difficult to accomplish. We all know that the American Eskimo used .22 rimfires on game and Karamojo Bell used a .275 Rigby (similar to the 7X57 Mauser) to harvest hundreds of elephants, that does not mean they were using the best tool for the job.

The .223 round only brings about 1300 lbf of energy with a 77grain bullet to the table, by comparison the .308 loaded with a 180 grain has about 3000lbf of energy. Another way to look at it is using the Taylor Knockdown Formula...

TKO value = [ Weight (gr) x Terminal Velocity (fps) x calibre (in) ] ÷ 7000

Here we see a .233 again with a 77 grain bullet has a TKO of 6.7 and the .308 with the 180 grain has a TKO of 21.7. A .357 180 grain from a 6 inch barrel has a TKO of 10 btw.

The results of this simply means the .223 does not carry the energy needed to humanely put down large game with a good hit in the heart/lungs area. If a raking shot is required it probably won't even reach the vitals. As Robert Ruark said "use enough gun".
Click to expand...

i thought a 275 rigby was a 7X57?
 
I definately wont be using my M4 this season for deer, thanks for all the great replies! I would hate wound one.
 
dougo83 said:
Based on....???
Click to expand...

This, for starters...by Absintheur. 11 posts earlier, and quoted 3 posts back...

The .223 is neither effective nor humane for large game.

The round has too little cross sectional density to be an effective killer of large game, it simply cannot provide the foot pounds of energy needed to humanely put down a large animal with anything but a good head or high spine shot, both of which are very difficult to accomplish. We all know that the American Eskimo used .22 rimfires on game and Karamojo Bell used a .275 Rigby (similar to the 7X57 Mauser) to harvest hundreds of elephants, that does not mean they were using the best tool for the job.

The .223 round only brings about 1300 lbf of energy with a 77grain bullet to the table, by comparison the .308 loaded with a 180 grain has about 3000lbf of energy. Another way to look at it is using the Taylor Knockdown Formula...

TKO value = [ Weight (gr) x Terminal Velocity (fps) x calibre (in) ] ÷ 7000

Here we see a .233 again with a 77 grain bullet has a TKO of 6.7 and the .308 with the 180 grain has a TKO of 21.7. A .357 180 grain from a 6 inch barrel has a TKO of 10 btw.

The results of this simply means the .223 does not carry the energy needed to humanely put down large game with a good hit in the heart/lungs area. If a raking shot is required it probably won't even reach the vitals. As Robert Ruark said "use enough gun".
Click to expand...
 
SPXTrader said:
This, for starters...by Absintheur. 11 posts earlier, and quoted 3 posts back...
Click to expand...

See...this is actually a bunch of stats that have nothing to do with how humane said weapon is. The weapon will kill a deer very well if shot properly. I know, I've used an AR before. It works. While it may not work for a body mass shot on some game, it certainly dropped a whitetail doe with a headshot. As it was also stated, the humane factor is directly related to the shooter's ability, not the weapon.

that being said, is it my primary choice for deer hunting? Absolutely not. It is a high-maintenance weapon and I actually prefer my .30-.30 to hunt with. Sure, I can't get the same range that I can with the AR, but I don't want to walk that far after downing a deer anyway...

PeACE
Dougo

Also, absintheur, where did you get all your info from? Something to add a little cred. to it would be appreciated. No offense intended, btw...
 
One thing that I don't think anybody has mentioned is whether or not you'll be hunting in the woods.If your in pretty heavy cover a .223 is going to be a lousy gun,the smallest branches on trees will deflect a .223 bullet.On the other hand if your shooting across open fields or in big timber,it would probably work ok.
 
Gene Martin said:
As a retired game warden I've killed a lot of critters with a lot of weapons. That includes a sap and flashlight. A 22 to the ear, or with a spotlight up close, can work well. A .223, with well placed shots and the right ammo will work okay. But why push it? A wounded animal that gets away is simply that. It will die slowly and be wasted, and it doesn't matter if it was shot with a .338 mag.

As to 5 round mags, I've checked a lot of states, starting with CA. When I retired no such law existed. Check you game dept. It's mostly an old wives tale. Shotguns are different, but I haven't found a law about 5 round rifle mags. Some states may have one, so check, but unless they do, a 30 rd mag is legal. Except in CA, 10 rd.

Gene
Click to expand...

i am pretty sure TX has a law no more than 10 rounds for deer hunting.
 
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