25 In depth (With Pichas!)

It's a great knife, I'm very impressed with and very happy with mine.
I've had it for quite a while now and haven't taken it apart yet so I really enjoyed your pics, thank you for sharing.

Yes the ball is larger on the 25

The stop pin doesn't appear to be eccentric, the flat is there to allow the protrusion on the blade to clear the pin. I believe that this was required due to the slight change in where the pivot and pin are located which was what I think eliminated the flex in the lockbar that the Zaan has- very, very well thought out to say the least! It's an extraordinary knife.
 
So the ball being used as part of the lockup, do you have to worry about that wearing down causing blade play? Or will it never move/wear?
 
So the ball being used as part of the lockup, do you have to worry about that wearing down causing blade play? Or will it never move/wear?

The whole point of the ceramic ball lockup was to eliminate the wearing issues that your normal titanium framelocks had. The ceramic ball is much harder than titanium and will never wear against the blade steel.
 
I've been waiting for these kinds of pictures! I always wondered what the big changes were on the 25, this helps a lot! Now, all I have to do is wait for the Small 25 to go into production.

Oh and by the way, this knife is a work of genius. Every detail seems to be thought out.
 
The whole point of the ceramic ball lockup was to eliminate the wearing issues that your normal titanium framelocks had. The ceramic ball is much harder than titanium and will never wear against the blade steel.

Personally this is something I would definitely prefer over wearing the titanium lock face. Although you can always simply pay for a new 21 locking slab if you do ever manage to wear it down, I would much rather simply pay for a new blade that would have a fresh edge on it when the time comes. It's little details like this that prove Mr. Reeve really is obsessed with making the most perfect pocket knife possible.
 
It's a great knife, I'm very impressed with and very happy with mine.
I've had it for quite a while now and haven't taken it apart yet so I really enjoyed your pics, thank you for sharing.

Yes the ball is larger on the 25

The stop pin doesn't appear to be eccentric, the flat is there to allow the protrusion on the blade to clear the pin. I believe that this was required due to the slight change in where the pivot and pin are located which was what I think eliminated the flex in the lockbar that the Zaan has- very, very well thought out to say the least! It's an extraordinary knife.

The Umnumzaan doesn't have a stop pin though, so the geometry between the locks would be different. My Umnumzaan doesn't have any lock flex, either.

Looks to me like that little protrusion is there to help eliminate any possibility of horizontal play. It stretches just to the edge of the washers all the way around. It would stiffen it up by adding a lever opposite of the working end of the blade.

Could be wrong, but thats what I got out of staring at mine.
 
Great shots of the internal workings of the new Sebenza.........looks good with the subtle upgrades to the design.
 
Great post, thanks. Some musings from an old materials engineer.

The smaller holes in the lock side washer are smaller only to clear the cutout needed for the lock bar, not to reduce lube, dirt, etc.

This knife design has positively set sliding surfaces on the lock bar side by locking in the position of the washer and the seeming interference fit of the pivot in the lock side.

Interference fits will always be tighter and with less chance of movement than even the most precise tolerances otherwise. I assume the stop bar and the back spacer are interference fits as well but would like to know for sure. Those fits must be quite precise but not as much as an easily removable part and so are easier to produce.

Blade rigidity is, of course a function of how hard and strong the blade and its contact points are but likely even more critical is how far from the pivot center it can be supported. The further the better, as tripton noted with the blade protuberance. A pencil eraser could make a blade rigid if it could support the blade far enough from the pivot.

The four contacts are as far out as possible; blade stop, the ball on the lock bar and the outer edge of the washers. Note the polish line on the blade where it contacts the non lock side washer.

Using the ball for a combination detent, sliding of the lock and the lock itself a la Umnumzaan is brilliant . That should be patented if it isn't used elsewhere. Wear, however, between the ball and blade at both points, is absolutely inevitable. As the contact surface of the blade increases with this wear, maybe with only a few openings, it should be insignificant. I'd love to see really close pictures of the blade at the contact of the lock, the detent and sliding surface.

The real question for me is setting the clearance between the blade and the washers. Sebenza was brilliant here but adjustment requires sanding of the washers for an increase and the pivot for a decrease. I'm assuming the 25 can be cranked down to tight or loosened to free fall or even blade play. How is that adjustment maintained? Locktite, interference threads or maybe neither is needed?

In my wildest dreams, I can't imagine the small not being built. Both the large and the inevitable small are also amazing palettes for all sorts of the decorations we have come to know and love from CRK, some through ownership and others, myself included, through the generosity of you guys and gals of BF. Thanks.
 
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Good comments and insight! thanks!

Some more pictures, nothing special but porn nonetheless ;-)
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Nice pictures of the assembled knife. Perfect background on the artsy ones and, wow look at the size of those washers, in the others.

Might I ask again how the tension setting is maintained. Can the pivot be cranked down so the blade is really tight? Can it be loosened to let the blade fall? to blade wobble? Finally, if adjustable over that whole range, will it hold that adjustment by itself or did you use Locktite? Also, were the spacer and the blade stop interference fits on the lock side as well; like the pivot?
 
Nice pictures of the assembled knife. Perfect background on the artsy ones and, wow look at the size of those washers, in the others.

Might I ask again how the tension setting is maintained. Can the pivot be cranked down so the blade is really tight? Can it be loosened to let the blade fall? to blade wobble? Finally, if adjustable over that whole range, will it hold that adjustment by itself or did you use Locktite? Also, were the spacer and the blade stop interference fits on the lock side as well; like the pivot?

It's the same pivot as the Umnumzaan so it can be too loose or tight. It needs loctite to keep its place. CRK uses a relatively weak purple loctite and that's all it needs.

I also have some crappy iPhone pics of mine. The lockup is absolutely perfect as expected.

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Nice pictures of the assembled knife. Perfect background on the artsy ones and, wow look at the size of those washers, in the others.

Might I ask again how the tension setting is maintained. Can the pivot be cranked down so the blade is really tight? Can it be loosened to let the blade fall? to blade wobble? Finally, if adjustable over that whole range, will it hold that adjustment by itself or did you use Locktite? Also, were the spacer and the blade stop interference fits on the lock side as well; like the pivot?

I haven't use it long enough to see if it unscrew itself but let me tell you that since tolerances are so tight a tiny tiny movement of the pivot has a noticeable effect on the action of the blade so you can fine tune it. I barely touched it and it made it very smooth. As recommended, I think a tiny bit of locktite would not hurt.
Not sure what you mean by the other question?

Look at the thread on those pivots... Many many turns ;)
 
Thanks guys. I did see a UTube video of take down and assembly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9OEWoBbGKY From that it looks like the only "interference fit" is the blade stop. It is likely a bit more complex but that was my other question. The rest are just really close tolerances.

Interestingly he had some problems in the video both disassembling and assembling due to the close tolerances. The scales are terribly unforgiving of a lack of parallelism both ways. with the pins and pivot binding if not perfectly aligned. Stainless steel expands at about twice the rate of titanium with temperature increases. Since the scales are basically unconstrained, I would expect holes to enlarge with an increase in temperature. The pins and pivot, however, expand at twice the rate of the Ti holes. Without computing just how much, I don't know Chris' tolerances anyway, I would cool the parts before disassembly if problems are encountered. As your hands heat the scales, things should improve slightly. On reassembly, heating the scales slightly would help and cool the pins. A cold Allen wrench will never hurt. If you wanted to be extreme, bulk up the Allen wrenches with a good heat sink and keep it in the freezer so that it will cool the pins.

Tempest in a teapot? You bet. I don't even own one but when tolerances are really close things like different coefficients of thermal expansion must be at least considered; I'm sure Chris did.

Though purple Locktite has been recommended, I've had good success with blue even on very small parts.

The video I mentioned covered disassembly but his assembly problems were similar. He was disappointed with Chris' close tolerances when combined with his inability to maintain parallel scales. He made a good point about field stripdown maybe being a problem. I doubt it would ever be required. No judgement either way. Those tolerances don't need to be so close and he should be able to maintain parallelism. Several errors in the video but I think it was a gutsy move to do it on camera the first time .... very nice considering.

Who am I to say what would be an improvement in a fine knife but I would have eliminated the separate screw for the clip and use the rear standoff screw. This would eliminate one screw and the hot spot from the clip. The clip would have to be redesigned slightly and the screw would have to be the right length to work with or without the clip. That or a filler supplied like in the 21. If I redesigned the clip, I'd use one that doubles over itself to ride far lower even if it required a hole in the top to access the stand off screw that holds it on.

This post is nothing more than observations from a very unreliable source and in no way is it meant to criticize the video or the Sebenza 25. The video and, though I haven't even handled one, the knife, superb. I'm looking forward to the small and decorations to both.
 
Purple loctite is what comes in the Umnumzaan kit, and is what CRK says works best with the precision threads.

As for field takedown, I cannot imagine any reason why someone would have to take down an open backed folding knife in the field, for any reason. Realistically, they don't need to be taken down NEARLY as much as a lot of people do, even at home.
 
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