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- Oct 26, 2010
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- 18
Gotta get me one of those! with Micarta inlays, that is.
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25 In depth (With Pichas!)
- Thread starter BBW
- Start date
I haven't used in mine but I agree with you, anything that needs locktite is a piece of crap including my knives, 5000$ bicycles, car, my remote control cars, etc.
Maybe pivots and screws and not well designed? Maybe we should tight a piece of paracord around the hole so it stays tight??
Maybe pivots and screws and not well designed? Maybe we should tight a piece of paracord around the hole so it stays tight??
Can anyone confirm that the pivot on the 25 needs Loctite to stay adjusted?
My 21s and Insingos don't.
- Joined
- May 26, 2008
- Messages
- 5,605
Your 21s and Insingos do not use the same pivot system.
The Umnumzaan/25 system is designed to be used with purple loctite in the precision threads.
While CRK has not posted about this regarding the 25 (yet), he has spoken about the Umnumzaan, and the only way to properly put these together, is with loctite.
Here...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/682319-Umnumzaan-Loctite?p=7369833#post7369833
And in this thread....
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Chris?p=8066017&highlight=loctite#post8066017
Pay special attention to this post...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...za-Pivot-Construction?p=10333912#post10333912
Thanks for that research, Tripton.
But a folding knife that requires a special tool AND a Loctite that's rare and difficult to find? Or the knife's pivot will continually loosen?
I don't get it -- what am I missing?
The newer Umnums don't require the tool nor does the 25. My guess is that the original Locktite is good for a lot of cleanings judging from the number of posters saying they never use Locktite and the difference between purple and the readily available, blue, is minor.
I would hazard to guess that the reason Chris stopped using the Sebbie bushing and washer system is that the washers and bushing might need to be fitted to be replaced. If you exchange blades, a new fitting might be required. If you ruin a washer, it might need to be re fitted. Wear, personal preference on how easy the blade should be to open etc. were not easily adjustable. With the new system, parts are totally interchangeable and wear or personal preferences are easily adjusted to perfection.
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- May 26, 2008
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As stated, the new 25 and new Umnumzaan just takes a 1/8th inch allen wrench for the pivot. There really is no reason to mess with the pivot very often. Think of all the manufacturers that VOID the warranty if you simply disassemble their product.
The special tool and loctite were/are very easy to find. CRK sells them. The loctite can be ordered from all kinds of websites. Once you have a tube, it will last you pretty much forever. A tiny drop is all that is needed.
Loctite is generally a one time use product. Numbers of posters say they don't reapply it, or use teflon tape, or whatever. I must say, I am with Chris here, I do not understand why someone would spend $400 on a knife and not just simply follow the manufacturers instructions....
I would bet that you are right. I would imagine they spent a LOT of man-hours adjusting the pivot bushings. I love the bushings too, and was skeptical of the new style pivot, but after using it...I am on board.
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- May 26, 2008
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- 5,605
Many thanks for these responses. That's why we come here.
That said, designing a folder that requires Loctite for the pivot to stay in tune does not make sense to me.
Do you take Loctite with you in the field?
Do you disassemble your knife in the field?
Why?
There is no reason at all to be disassembling these knives in the field. The open back construction allows easy cleaning of debris, and tight tolerances in the pivot keep things out.
Frankly, I do not carry tiny allen wrenches with me "in the field" anyway. Anything that the knife goes through that would require a complete tear down will wait until I get home.
As far as designing a knife that "requires loctite for the pivot to stay in tune", well, I guess the same question could be asked of all manufacturers that put together screw-together construction pocketknives without a pivot bushing...because every single one requires some kind of threadlocker if you want the pivot to stay put.
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2013
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- 1,354
I couldn't see any loctite residue on the pivot screw threads of my new 25 when recently disassembled. Am I the only one?
I also haven't seen any information from CRK about maintenance of the 25 specifically. So how sure is everyone about the use of loctite? And blue or purple, based on what? I have little experience with CRKs and would love an explanation.
I also haven't seen any information from CRK about maintenance of the 25 specifically. So how sure is everyone about the use of loctite? And blue or purple, based on what? I have little experience with CRKs and would love an explanation.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2002
- Messages
- 3,021
:thumbup: well said
The question of blue vs purple is pretty easy. Both CRK and Locktite recommend purple. CRK specifically and Locktite for screw threads under 1/4". I have used blue on small screws with no problem in either locking or removing but I'm 100% on board in using what CRK and Locktite recommend. I still believe it but I suppose I should retract my earlier statement that blue will do. The blue is just a bit stronger and an unmeasurable bit more viscus.
http://henkelontheroad.henkelna.com/LT-6540_AN_RemovableReliable_SS_v11_Final_Links.pdf
For what it's worth, Benchmade uses blue on their ballisongs. I still believe that parts can be re assembled and the residual locking compound will lock sufficiently as evidenced by those reporting, "never using threadlocker" on their Umnums. The common advice, however, is to remove all traces of the old thread locker and re apply. Coating 2 to 4 threads should be sufficient but I dare you to limit it to that on such small screws.
http://henkelontheroad.henkelna.com/LT-6540_AN_RemovableReliable_SS_v11_Final_Links.pdf
For what it's worth, Benchmade uses blue on their ballisongs. I still believe that parts can be re assembled and the residual locking compound will lock sufficiently as evidenced by those reporting, "never using threadlocker" on their Umnums. The common advice, however, is to remove all traces of the old thread locker and re apply. Coating 2 to 4 threads should be sufficient but I dare you to limit it to that on such small screws.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2006
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- 5,959
For those that take the knife apart
Do you do it like a sandwich style?
I would do it the same way as recommended from CRK on the old Sebenza design. First remove the blade and then from there take everything apart, or, just clean the blade without taking the handles apart.
http://www.chrisreeve.com/sebenzaclean.htm
Do you do it like a sandwich style?
I would do it the same way as recommended from CRK on the old Sebenza design. First remove the blade and then from there take everything apart, or, just clean the blade without taking the handles apart.
http://www.chrisreeve.com/sebenzaclean.htm
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2012
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- 941
I appreciate the close ups of the lock up.. It been my first experience with the ceramic ball lock, but it is incredibly smooth and distinct compared to my 21.
I wouldn't but the recommended solvent is Locktite 768. I have used acetone to clean up the blue. I suspect the purple would be similar.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2012
- Messages
- 517
Wow, BBW, great write-up and excellent photos.
I received my 25 on Friday and I agree with pretty much all you said. The lock-up on this knife is rock solid and the action out of the box is smoother than either of my large 21's was. My only beefs would be that the detent is too strong for my taste, the jimping area is not as symmetrical or aesthetically pleasing as the 21's, and it's harder to actuate the frame lock due to less of it being accessible to the thumb. The jimping on the 21 is very good, though I know some would disagree, but no question that the 25's jimping is also very good. I think you said it best when you stated that the knife begs for hard use, which it clearly does.
Those are niggles, though, and it's obvious from first touch that the 25 is an extremely high quality product. It's a joy to be able to own and use precisely made products like this. For those that don't quite get the CRK "thing," I suggest handling this knife. If you don't get it after that, you never will.
I'm extremely pleased with this knife, and the 21's as well. The only problem is, my other knives are suffering by comparison.
I received my 25 on Friday and I agree with pretty much all you said. The lock-up on this knife is rock solid and the action out of the box is smoother than either of my large 21's was. My only beefs would be that the detent is too strong for my taste, the jimping area is not as symmetrical or aesthetically pleasing as the 21's, and it's harder to actuate the frame lock due to less of it being accessible to the thumb. The jimping on the 21 is very good, though I know some would disagree, but no question that the 25's jimping is also very good. I think you said it best when you stated that the knife begs for hard use, which it clearly does.
Those are niggles, though, and it's obvious from first touch that the 25 is an extremely high quality product. It's a joy to be able to own and use precisely made products like this. For those that don't quite get the CRK "thing," I suggest handling this knife. If you don't get it after that, you never will.
I'm extremely pleased with this knife, and the 21's as well. The only problem is, my other knives are suffering by comparison.
