$250 for a taiwan knife?

[Myker]

Just to keep it going a little more, why can't struggling US machine shops pick up the slack. Struggling for contracts I mean, all this out sourced work, I just don't get it. If there ( Taiwan) just as good as us what's the difference, why can't we create US jobs.?

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Purple,

We are all teachers and we are all students. We share in a passion. I've learned a great deal from the folks visiting on this forum.

sal

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Myker,

Many companies are doing just that. It took a long time to get into this situation. It will probably take a while to sort it, as long as we contimue.

We keep spiralling down. lower costs, lower wages, lower prices, More for less? We need to "Spiral up". Higher wages means people can afford more, maybe even to buy American? Hard to compete against the Chinese Yuan. Americans like low prices. But it's really like buy now pay later......and pay we will. I think awareness helps.

Purple,

We supply Japan, Taiwan and Italy with our USA made wire clips. Most of our vendors use USA made G-10, bone and wood.

sal

 

[hank_rearden]

well it's good we have an honest-to-goodness captain of industry in this thread. outsourcing is all about having a cost advantage over one's competitors (though a company like spyderco might have other competitive advantages that forumers already know.)

might as well ride a time machine to right after world war II. the japanese industries were almost completely destroyed but people were hell-bent to rise back up. the government did something very simple: let the biggie boys from the US and europe go right in the japanese local market. so fledgeling car makers had the detroit big three lined up against them. komatsu was up against caterpillar, and so forth. the japanese countered by looking at their cost structure. in simplest form, selling price = cost to sell + mark-up. strategy: don't touch the price and keep the mark-up low. you do that by bringing costs down. did japanese industries try to outsource cheaper local imports then? no. there was no such thing as outsourcing then. nearly everything was either US-made or you made it yourself. so they they tried making everything themselves. they took apart ford and GM cars, swiss watches, canon cameras, US-made tvs and radios. they benchmarked theirs with those they took apart. then they built up their integrated industries.

now if we segui to present, it actually looks easier for US companies. the US still has a fully-integrated industry with a well-trained workforce and the US itself being a prime source of innovations. a little tweaking by both the government and private sector could bring a fully-intergated US industry to cost competitiveness with other countries. just remember the biggest asset the US has at the moment: a large and relatively aflluent market for quality manufactured goods.

 

[jsp]

I hate to say it but I think it's just our pride talking when it comes to our hobbies or something we're passionate about. Maybe they are some of us here that can't accept the fact that other Asian countries (with the exception of Japan) could produce the same level of quality or better as the US. Then there are those that despise the fakes and counterfeiting coming out of Asia/China and associate Taiwan with it.

 

[Ankerson]

We keep spiralling down. lower costs, lower wages, lower prices, More for less? We need to "Spiral up". Higher wages means people can afford more, maybe even to buy American? Hard to compete against the Chinese Yuan. Americans like low prices. But it's really like buy now pay later......and pay we will. I think awareness helps.



sal

You are so right about that one.... :thumbup:

That is the biggest mistake the American Corps make, they just keep cutting more and more, laying people off, cutting wages, hours.

That's less money going into the Economy and with taxes going up and other expenses that don't support the local economies we are headed for a lot of trouble.

The gap between the wealthy and the poor is getting larger as time passes and the middle class shrinks.

How are WE supposed to BUY anything when the expenses are going up while the wages keep shrinking?

And that's not even going into those who lost their jobs and if they could find work at all it was usually at a huge pay cut from what they had been making before.

Personally I believe the something for nothing attitude of the American people these days is what is causing most of the problems.

Or should I say Gold for the price of lead.

 

[bh49]

Our Golden factory is making 300% more than we were just 5 years ago, and still growing.
sal

Very impressive.

Americans like low prices.

IMHO this is the biggest problem. And was not better than anybody else until just few years ago.

Personally I believe the something for nothing attitude of the American people these days is what is causing most of the problems.

+1
Also I think that our government can be a little friendlier to our manufacturing as well.

 

[PURPLEDC]

does anyone know where the Titanium is sourced for this knife?

 

[GSO]

There are a few Spyderco models that Sal has explained they are trying a lower profit margin to see if cheaper prices and increased sales will result in a profitable business model. This includes the standard Manix 2 and Para 2 and maybe some other models. How many other companies do you see lowering prices on their most popular models to see if they can still remain competitive and pay the bills?

I had a hunch there was something special about the relative pricing of the Para 2. This might spur me to pick up a Manix 2 and Para 2 sooner than later. What, pray tell, are the "some other models" to which you referred?

 

[Ankerson]

Also I think that our government can be a little friendlier to our manufacturing as well.

True, but they do need to slam the ones who laid off and outsourced with a 90% tax rate to pay for all of that unemployment they caused, the same ones who got those Huge Pay increases of around 30% or more while starving out everyone else.

That's in effect locking down all that money that is overseas and go after the CEO's and Boards Of Directors also seizing their money and force them to pay huge fines, around 90% of their total wealth.

Then take all of that money and distribute it all to those who are the victims of this mess they caused in the 1st place, those who lost jobs, their homes etc.

Call it hardship pay for around 30 Million Americans.

Then there needs to be regulations put in place and enforced that protect both the employees and the Companies so this mess doesn't happen again.

 

[unit]

That is the biggest mistake the American Corps make, they just keep cutting more and more, laying people off, cutting wages, hours.

That is really easy to say if you are not the one trying to keep a business profitable. Profit is not an evil concept for rich far cats, it is what keeps business going...without it everyone looses their job.

I'm not attacking you, but claiming that someone is making a mistake by cutting costs is silly.

I do not make what I did last year, should I continue to spend like I used too, or make some adjustments (including firing some service providers) so that I may continue to keep my operation (family) afloat?

 

[Ankerson]

That is really easy to say if you are not the one trying to keep a business profitable. Profit is not an evil concept for rich far cats, it is what keeps business going...without it everyone looses their job.

One has to look at everything, including the earnings of the top level management and Boards of Directors and I mean really look at it. Really see were that money is going and in who's pockets.

Some are reporting larger earning than ever before... That's after they threw countless thousands of people out on the street, and who got that money?

Top Level Management got that and that has been a lot of the large Corps, not just a few and it's been all over the news lately.

Just saying the whole thing needs to be looked at.

Making money isn't a bad thing, never said it was, but to what point does it cross the line and how far over will they go?

 

[mc556]

I haven't read the whole thread end to end but I have to state my opinion never the less.
I understand that a large part of the market segment is a competitive price point driven mess. But even though I own a Gayle Bradley that is flawless I just am not comfortable buying higher end items made outside of the USA.
I think here in the South we have proven that if taking the time to train workers a superior product can be made right here in the USA.

BTW If forced to decide I'd keep my Manax2 over my Bradley any day of the week. I actually like my 154cm over my BentoBox M4

 

[unit]

Just saying the whole thing needs to be looked at.

By who?

This whole thing seems like an odd conversation for this forum.

I don't like that jobs get outsourced or that I earn less than I used too...but I sure don't want to give up the freedom to run my business the way I see fit.

 

[Fat Goat Forge]

I haven't read the whole thread end to end but I have to state my opinion never the less.
I understand that a large part of the market segment is a competitive price point driven mess. But even though I own a Gayle Bradley that is flawless I just am not comfortable buying higher end items made outside of the USA.
I think here in the South we have proven that if taking the time to train workers a superior product can be made right here in the USA.

BTW If forced to decide I'd keep my Manax2 over my Bradley any day of the week. I actually like my 154cm over my BentoBox M4

Then just vote with your pocketbook and purchase the made in usa models. That's the beauty of the free market if the demand is there the supply will follow. Personally I have spyderco models made in Japan, USA, and Taiwan and really enjoy them all. I buy the models I like and don't pay too much attention to country of origin.

 

[mc556]

Then just vote with your pocketbook and purchase the made in usa models. That's the beauty of the free market if the demand is there the supply will follow. Personally I have spyderco models made in Japan, USA, and Taiwan and really enjoy them all. I buy the models I like and don't pay too much attention to country of origin.

I agree but I usually get out voted Knives that I would otherwise love to have get made outside the US and it sucks.

The Southard knife is awesome and I am not ruling against buying one it would just be nice if most if not all the Spyderco's at this price point be made here. I have to imagine that it could mean the difference for someone looking at a ZT560 or the soon to be out Southard. I know Sal takes in what people say here so I hope that I may make a difference speaking out that's all. Hell I waited four years to make my first post on here I have some making up to do.

 

[Pseudonym]

So I get all excited because Spyderco finally comes and decides to release a flipper folder. YAY!!! then I see its Made in Taiwan? Ok so that was a little disappointing but then im like, so what? It will be cheaper and I can buy a couple instead of one. Then I see that the pre order price on these things is over $250. WTF? Sorry guys but I wont pay $250 for a CRKT and I aint gonna pay that much for a Taiwan knife even if there is a hole in the blade. I hate to say it Spyderco but If your trying to compete in the bearing operated flipper folder world, that was an epic fail. Come on Sal, quit taking plays out of the lynn thompson play book.

If it was made in the US it would be 300-350. There's a reason they're making it in Taiwan, and QC has nothing to do with it (although the QC from their Taiwan factory is fantastic nonetheless).

 

[pry]

it seems to me if you are willing to buy a $250 knife that you would be willing to buy a $350 knife, if the southard was made in the US and was $350 I would buy it. Most companies have their value models made overseas, so having the premium models made overseas seems strange to some of us, but thats just my opinion. from this thread I think weve determined that they are making it in taiwan because they dont have the production capacity in golden.

 

[pry]

does anyone know where the Titanium is sourced for this knife?

most all of the worlds titanium comes from russia

 

[Skates]

That is really easy to say if you are not the one trying to keep a business profitable. Profit is not an evil concept for rich far cats, it is what keeps business going...without it everyone looses their job.

I'm not attacking you, but claiming that someone is making a mistake by cutting costs is silly.

I do not make what I did last year, should I continue to spend like I used too, or make some adjustments (including firing some service providers) so that I may continue to keep my operation (family) afloat?

Well said.