.308 Win or 30-06 Springfield

I'd take Russ's advice being he has first hand knowledge on the subject of hunting in alaska, heck he lives there. Also Peter hit on a very important fact a claw extractor mauser type action would definately be the one i would take to alaska. There is a reason why they are so widely used in africa and have been for 100 years or more. It's called dangerous game also be prepared to possibly be in a soaking rain for days hunting in alaska. So going with a synthetic stock would be a good idea. If i were going for big bears though my caliber of choice would be 338 and up. I'd get the 06 though if it were me for the smaller stuff. Good Luck with your decision and let us know what you get.

Doug
 
There is a lot of good thinking and advice in this thread, but some of the discussion has strayed into the "overthinking" category, IMO.

Peter has some excellent points on rates of twist, but as for his advice on length of pull, unless you're taller than about 6' 3" with extra broad shoulder span and a long neck, a standard length of pull should suffice. My son is a 6' 4" bull of a man and handles a standard Remington 700 just fine. One thing about LOP is that range-shooting and field use are two different things. A longer LOP for a large man may be more comfortable in a fixed position on the bench at a range, but it shortens the arc one can fire in. In other words, if you're right handed, a shorter length of pull allows you to swing the rifle comfortably farther to your right in a dynamic hunting situation.

Also, for years Winchester has touted its Mauser-style M70 action as being a "controlled round feed" system, as d762nato points out, and that action does have some excellent design points. At the same time, for more than 50 years hunters have been facing down dangerous game with Remington M700's, which typically function flawlessly--and no action is ultimately fool-proof.

Bottom line, I'd suggest you follow through with your original intent of buying a .30-06 in a standard Remington Model 700 and see how you like it. I'm betting you'll be delighted.

just my 2 cents,
Alferd
 
adrock1978 said:
No... a hunting rifle is what I'm after. Although unecessary, I thought going with a freefloat barrel would be a bonus. They just all happen to be Tac models in .308. So I guess i'll get something in a synth. Stock chamberd for 30-06. and call it a day. Sounds like the most versatile option based on what i'm hearing.




Amen to that.
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You seem reasonable in your selection and I know you aren't locked into a free-floated barrel. Still I am impelled to ask the group, just what advantage does a free-float barrel have on a hunting rifle over one with the barrel properly bedded in the stock? Practically speaking, I mean missing the kill zone on a sub-300 yd shot.

I am a big gear nut, and when I was rifle shopping I had more extreme ideas. I decided I needed a Remington R5 (never got one) because that's the best sniper system without going custom based on what I read. After years of reading forums for "expert advice" I realized that much of the must-haves are really superfluous in reality. All the special tactical features are more of a hindrance for hunting. I want some light, dependable, and accurate enough (groups of 2MOA are more than enough).
 
wrxguyusa said:
You seem reasonable in your selection and I know you aren't locked into a free-floated barrel. Still I am impelled to ask the group, just what advantage does a free-float barrel have on a hunting rifle over one with the barrel properly bedded in the stock? Practically speaking, I mean missing the kill zone on a sub-300 yd shot.

I am a big gear nut, and when I was rifle shopping I had more extreme ideas. I decided I needed a Remington R5 (never got one) because that's the best sniper system without going custom based on what I read. After years of reading forums for "expert advice" I realized that much of the must-haves are really superfluous in reality. All the special tactical features are more of a hindrance for hunting. I want some light, dependable, and accurate enough (groups of 2MOA are more than enough).
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Excellently said Brother!!! That is exactly why I don't have scopes on my .458 or .45-70. Up close and personal is how things can get in a hurry. Scopes and other gear offen times become a hindrance to the situation at hand. Namely trying to stay alive in a flash. A lot of guides I know carry 12 ga. shotguns in deep brush, THAT'S RIGHT---12 GA. SHOTGUNS. I want to get a Williams peep sight on my .458 cause the older I get and wearing bifocals it seem to be better suited for me to use peeps. I probably should state for the record my .458 has a Mag-na-Port muzzle break + a Pachmayr Decelerator® recoil pads. These two additions REALLY knock down the thump/shove you get from a small cannon.
 
PeterPHWS said:
Answering your queries Adrock ... firstly all Remington 700's have free floating barrels ... some "info" on the site may highlight this feature on certain models and on others it is silent ... but if you look at the owners manual and the blown out diagram on assembly part numbers you will see that on all models the barrel floats freely from the action and you would be able to get a dollar bill and fold it over the barrel and run it down to the action ... do this on the model you are interested in before buying though to test and make sure the stock has not warped or been attached out of true ... if the bill catches on the side of the stock reject that rifle and ask them to order another ... they ARE meant to have free floating barrels and the stock should not be touching the barrel ...

The next thing is the difference between .308 and .30-06 ... in the 700 Remington use a 1 in 10 twist in a 30-06 and 1 in 12 twist for the hunting models in .308 and 1 in 10 twist for some of their tactical models in .308.

The twist rate determines the way the barrel is able to stabalise bullets ... the lower the twist number the faster the twist ... so 1-10 is faster than 1-12 meaning it turns a full twist every 10 inches of barrel as opposed to 12 inches ... so it spins the bullets faster and heavier bullets need to be spinned quicker to stabalise them as they usually are longer given that the calibre is a constant ...

Some calibres with smaller diameter also use very long bullets so have an even faster twist ... an example is a 6.5 mm calibre which usually has 1 in 8 ...

So in most hunting models the 30-06 will handle heavier bullets better ... by heavier I mean 180 grains plus ... going up to 240 grains ... the sort of weight you would want for large game ...

That's not to say a 30-06 in 1-10 will not handle lighter bullets if you wanted to use them ... in theory ballistians talk of faster twists on lighter bullets which may not need such a fast twist as causing them to "over spin" and turn slightly "nose up" the effect being called "surfing" ... but this is "theory" only and in a 1-10 twist a 30-06 shoots lighter bullets just as well as a 1-12 twist barrel ... or put it another way ... if the barrel is a good one it will ... Remington 700's vary a great deal on what the barrel will do ... some are better than others and it is a bit of a lucky dip ... but all are generally good enough and should certainly be adequate for hunting ... tweaking a load for an individual rifle is all it takes .... if you don't re-load then all you need to do is try a few different ammo makes until you find what works best ...

The length of action is relevant only on issues of dangerous game in a hunting rifle ... the Remington is a "push" bolt/magazine pick up ... the longer the action/bullet the more likely a jam occurs when cycling fast for a follow up shot ... that is why African dangerous game rifles are usually preferred with a Mauser bolt which picks up the round on the rear stroke and loads it into the barrel locked into the bolt face so it is perfectly straight and lined up ... the Remington slides the round up the ramp so smaller is better ... but the 30-06 is at the small end of the long action rounds and usually chambers just as well as the .308 if you have a practised and smooth bolt cycle technique ...

Rigidity of the action is only going to be an issue in top end target shooting ... not relevant for hunting ...

What is relevant for hunting though when choosing a model is weight and whether you go for a magazine or a drop floor plate model .... my advice is go for a magazine model as when it is cold and you work in gloves unloading a magazine is far better than dropping out the floor plate ... this usually ends up with dropped rounds in the snow and when wet rounds can cause chamber pressure risks from the water instantly evaporating with the explosion of the powder ... a magazine therefore works much better for me ... and weight wise ... if you are able to have a light rifle it is a bonus on a long day ... recoil is not an issue in 30-06 if the rifle fits well ... fit is more important than weight ...

The length of pull on a 700 is really too short for most blokes ... they go for an "average" which includes women sizes ... most guys are on a 14 inch plus L.O.P. ... the 700 is about 13.5 inches .... look to see if you can order one with recoil pad spacers added to make your ideal L.O.P. ... they should be able to do this or if ordering from a good gun shop they should do that for you to get the deal ... if they don't know how to measure your L.O.P. walk away and try elsewhere ...

Personally I would consider an incline rail as an addition to the action to put the scope on ... it tightens up the action and there are loads to pick from .... accessories for the 700 are one of it's perks ... Badger do a good one ... and then you can use military picatinny rings to really lock in the scope ... bashing the scope when carrying the rifle is one of the most common reasons for flunking a shot when hunting ... so a strong set of scope rings makes sense ... a 20 minute of angle rail will also make the most of using the 30-06 out to it's full range capability ... handy if you want to use lighter bullets and do a bit of varmint shooting ... the new 155 grain Sierra VLD match bullets work really well here ... and getting into re-loading will help too ... but if you buy well at the start ... all this is open to you to explore later ...

Triggers can be easily changed out too if you want to at a later date ... but match triggers are not really needed on hunting rifles ...

Let us know which 30-06 model you were thinking of ... then a more accurate bit of help can be given ... and definately go for a .30-06 over the .308 for Alaska as the average bullet weight you will need will definately favour a 1-10 twist :thumbup:
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Man... it takes coming to a knife forum to get some good rifle info. :D I wont argue with you due to my lack of experience with the 700, but according to the guy I spoke to at Remington, only certain models come in the "free float" variety - meaning the barrel leaves the receiver and never touches the stock. (like the dollar bill method you're describing). He said several other models have two pressure points where the barrel actually touches the stock intentionally for sound resonance purposes.

I have been focused on the detachable magazine varieties as a possible criteria. It seems to make sense to me for all the reasons you listed, but again is not available on all models, so you are forced to choose "certain" features over others

I haven't narrowed it down too much yet. I was first trying to narrow down the chamber, being that that is another "option" which forces your selection. I am interested in some of the SPS (special purpose synthetic) models or any model with a synthetic stock. I think wood looks best, but in trying to select a go everywhere, do everything rifle, synth works better.

I guess I need to take another look at the list and see where it lands me if I plug in:

30-06
synthetic stock
detachable magazine

Excellent info Peter. Thank you for the input.

wrxguyusa said:
You seem reasonable in your selection and I know you aren't locked into a free-floated barrel. Still I am impelled to ask the group, just what advantage does a free-float barrel have on a hunting rifle over one with the barrel properly bedded in the stock? Practically speaking, I mean missing the kill zone on a sub-300 yd shot.

I am a big gear nut, and when I was rifle shopping I had more extreme ideas. I decided I needed a Remington R5 (never got one) because that's the best sniper system without going custom based on what I read. After years of reading forums for "expert advice" I realized that much of the must-haves are really superfluous in reality. All the special tactical features are more of a hindrance for hunting. I want some light, dependable, and accurate enough (groups of 2MOA are more than enough).
Click to expand...

I'm trying to be reasonable. All too often I get caught up in a myriad of "wants" that cloud what is most important, and then in the end I'm stuck with something that does a little of everything, but nothing WELL. Its my understanding that a free float barrel wont contact the stock, should the barrel swell and move due to changes in temperature. My Stag 2T AR-15 has free floated rails adhering to this same principle. Its also semi-auto and shoots paper all day. According to Remington Rep Guy, free float is no big deal on a hunting rifle. Its nice, but falls into the overkill category.

Its funny you mention "special tactical features". I was all caught up in a tactical HD version of an 870 that would double as a hunting gun. It has all the bells and whistles - Ghost rings, 6 round mag tube, smooth bore 18" barrel threaded for chokes, factory Picatinny rail...etc. Trouble is, all those features actually impede its hunt-ability (go figure :rolleyes:)
 
adrock, Much excellent advise in this thread. It goes to show that we do have interests other than knives and kind of enjoy talking about them sometimes too with our friends from the knife world.

My $.02, I prefer the 308 from the standpoint of you get very close to the ballistics of the 06 in a lighter smaller package. If you ever decide to reload the 308 is a more efficient cartridge in that you can get near 06 performance with less powder. BTW I have a Tikka t3 synthetic 308 and prefer it over my Remingtons.

Either caliber in my mind is great for the lower 48, but as other have suggested I would not have anything less than a 338 for Alaska.
 
The guy at Remington who said there are some versions where the barrel has intentional two point contacts for resonance is IMO wrong ... you can "tune" a barrel for resonance purposes and all "tuners" are designed to move up and down the barrel because the harmonics on a barrel are an individual thing ... it all depends on the barrel ... so a stock which contacts the barrel would be mass produced and would not "assist" on most barrels but rather detract from consistancy ... unless by "fluke" it was touching on the one barrel where it improved matters but that is "a very long bet" ...

It could be that Remington are trying to defer "send backs" with this sort of advice ... enabling the owner to think it may be intentional ... lol ... but trust me if the stock touches the barrel it is not meant to and it will lead to inconsistency and "fliers" when shooting ...

The L.O.P. point I make is to avoid in new shooters "snipers eyebrow" when shooting prone off a bi-pod ... try it yourself in a shop ... get a second hand rifle which is being sold with a scope on it and mount the rifle free hand stood up ... all will be fine even with a short L.O.P. ... then lie down and mount the rifle and see how close your eye is to the scope ... you will likely adjust your head to get the scope into focus so the eye relief is correct ... then ask the salesman to push the rifle into your shoulder mimicing recoil ... don't move your head and see if the scope comes back too close to your eye ... bashing your eye in is nothing worse for developing a twitch/snatch effect when shooting the rifle ... the proper L.O.P. sorts this out ... no matter how hard the recoil if the stock is the correct L.O.P. it won't move backwards into your shoulder to the point where your eye risks contact with the eye piece of the scope ...

The theory on the correct L.O.P. inhibiting tracking the rifle when stood freehand is also incorrect ... when you buy a bespoke shotgun or double rifle the first thing they do is to measure your L.O.P. and a correct L.O.P. assists enourmously in achieving correct sight picture and proper recoil recovery for a second shot ... this last point being critical if shooting the second barrel or if on a bolt rifle going for the second shot ... especially if they recoil heavily ...

I could tell you I am a World Champion at shooting rifles with scopes on them and coach internationally etc ... but that is'nt the point ... try it for yourself by going to a range and checking out rifles which have an adjustable but plate and then with those with a standard stock and see what works for you before spending your cash ... most will let you try a rifle for "comfort" ... take a tape measure to check your L.O.P. on the rifle offered and get measured for your L.O.P. so you know what it is ... PM me if you want to know how to do it ...

If your curious ... my name is Peter Wilson ... you can Google me in relation to F Class rifle shooting or shotgun shooting ... I am not saying I am right about what I say for you though ... but testing what I say will determine whether you feel it worth pursuing and whether it improves your "feel" when you take up the rifle ...

Let us know which one you choose or which your considering .... :thumbup:
 
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PeterPHWS said:
... get a second hand rifle which is being sold with a scope on it and mount the rifle free hand stood up ...
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This is excellent advice, and will clear up the question of whether you need to worry about a length-of-pull that is outside factory-issue length.

PeterPHWS said:
The theory on the correct L.O.P. inhibiting tracking the rifle when stood freehand is also incorrect ...
Click to expand...

Peter is obviously an expert shot and a qualified instructor, and I'm not arguing against finding the correct length of pull for shooting comfort and to get a good, clear field of view in your scope. But you can easily demonstrate for yourself that Peter's statement here is not true in all circumstances, i.e.:

Any shotgunner knows that it is easier to swing across your body toward your weak side, because your entire body can pivot if necessary to extend the arc of your swing. Conversely, it's easy to demonstrate for yourself that swinging to your right if you're a right-hander is a more abbreviated swing than to your left. With that in mind, if you're a right-hander sitting with your back against a tree, you can make a shot to your left across a much broader range of motion than to your right, for the same reason, and the greater the LOP on your rifle the more abbreviated the swing to your right becomes. I find that limitation at least as much a concern as shooting prone, which is rarely a preferred position for me in the field. The prone position is solid, true, but requires finding a clear field of view all the way to ground level, which in many kinds of hunting terrain is not going to happen.

Personally, I was measured for a LOP of right at 13.5" many years ago, but in shooting a rifle that had its stock shortened for my very petite mother to 12" LOP, I realized it made for a very versatile, quick-handling package. I now set my rifles up with 13" LOP, a half inch shorter than my "correct" LOP, for that very reason.

These concerns should go away once you take Peter's advice and handle a rifle with scope already mounted, to get a feel for what's right for you. And remember that the scope can often be moved a bit forward or back in its mounts to further adjust. Different scopes have different lengths of eye relief (focal length between your shooting eye and the rear scope lens), which can also affect this relationship.

I agree wholeheartedly with Peter that having a rifle that is comfortable to shoot is of paramount importance and can contribute significantly to accuracy.
 
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adrock1978 said:
I know Savage to be a well made rifle, but the US military and 50 years of proven performance cant be wrong. Plus I've already decided on the 700 and will be purchasing it soon. If I second guess that, I'll never own a hunting rifle.
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This is going to come across as a downer, but it needs to be said: That reputation was built by a completely different gun than the one you are buying today. Caveat Emptor.
 
rbmcmjr said:
This is going to come across as a downer, but it needs to be said: That reputation was built by a completely different gun than the one you are buying today. Caveat Emptor.
Click to expand...

What's that, the military's version or the 700 in general? I thought the 700 came out in the 60s?
 
I think what Rick is saying is that standards have slipped at Remington ... as they have at Colt and a few other old "names" ... there are some good 700's being done today but it is truely a "lucky dip" ... however for hunting purposes most should be fine and if you check the model you want to buy carefully before buying it that will help ...

I won't go into it all ... but press stampings on the side walls of triggers with "burrs" on them have impeded many triggers ... they used to be made with machined side walls ... then the quality of the hardening and fit on the trigger sears ... plus the quality of steel on the barrels and all in all it can "add up" ... compared to how they used to be ... it was once the case that you could blue print a 700 by a good gunsmith and it would shoot as well as anything out there ... now with most large makers you struggle to "blue print" any of them ... even some of the so called semi-custom rifles like Coopers have hit bad patches ... so it is'nt like there is an easy recommendation to make which sorts out this gradual decline ... aside from a truly custom job or searching for certain old models and looking at a good re-barrelling job if it needs it ... there is'nt much to say or do.

However for hunting ... most rifles will work at the usual hunting distances ... the 700 included ... and the 700 has more after market accessories than any other rifle to tweak it to improve on matters if you feel the need to do so ...

You made a reasonable point when you said "second guessing" a 700 would probably have you not buying a rifle ...

I have editted this to add what I consider is perhaps the best rifle for your use that I have come across as a "new" rifle ... albeit mine was bought new it is now a few years old ... so maybe things have changed ... but like you I wanted a light synthetic rifle with a mag system and a long action. I also wanted it "cheap" as a "beater rifle" and wanted it versatile ... the rifle I liked the best was the Tikka T3 Lite and like you I was considering .30 cal and between a 30-06 and a .300 WSM ... as neither have a belted magnum case so can be tweaked easily to seat a round using the shoulder of the case rather than the belt on a magnum round and both have the velocity to do an all round job as a hunting rifle. Tikka actions are fully enclosed like a bench rest action and are the most rigid of any mass produced hunting action. They are all "long actions" and the barrels on them are made by the company and are the same as used on the more expensive Sako rifles ... plus the steel on the barrel is first rate coming directly from Finland where they are not into "cheap steel" imported from China ... the triggers are good and in my day were machined walls and not press stamped ... but the hook up for them is unique and you cannot get a seperate after market trigger easily ... although in fairness you don't need them. I did tweak mine by replacing the trigger spring with a custom made one but that is because I am used to "very light" Jewel triggers ... it is not needed but was simply "preferred" ... the rifle is light and whilst I went for the 300 WSM as I use a "wildcat" of this case for my F Class shooting the 30-06 would have worked just as well.
The rifle using my handloads shoots sub .25 inch groups at 100 yards ... I have even shot benchrest "screamer" groups with it in a tunnel range ... but you don't need that level of accuracy unless you want to shoot at long range when hunting ... I use mine for some very long foxing shots taken over the Moors where I live where the wind really blows ... so the heavier Match bullets work well at minimising wind drift ...

The sope rings and mounts need to be "Tikka" too ... but those are good quality rings and mounts and work well ... I am not sure how they are priced in the States but they are cheap over here compared to other makes ... however don't let this be a distraction to you if you want a 700 ... I just thought I would explain what I wanted and what features are important and how I found something good in a cheap package ... and "yes" I added butt spacers to tweak it to my L.O.P. :D
 
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Pete got it right.

I understand wanting something based on its history. I chose a Mannlicher-Schoenauer simply because of the cachet associated with it. By any reasonable measure, it isn't half the gun a 700 is. It doesn't matter to me.

I have no particular aversion to Remington, just the manufacturing short cuts that they seem to be taking under their new management. The original Senderos were lovely rifles. And I seriously covet a Model 725 in .280 Remington.

Choose what makes you happy. Otherwise you will regret it and resent the gun.
 
There have been a lot of good points made in this thread but in reality if you determine a 308 is not enough rifle for your intended purpose than a 30-06 is not the answer.

The two are nearly interchangeable in terms of the ballistics provided by the two cartridges.

Much ado is made about the mystical or magical qualities of a cartridge but truthfully if you pick a rifle of sufficient power, select a projectile constructed heavily enough to do the job the only real variable is the shooter himself. Doesn't matter what rifle is in your hands if you don't hit your target.

You should set down and decide what game you are going to hunt and go from there. You can play the game well this cartridge is a bit more powerful than this one until you have convinced yourself you NEED a 460 Weatherby on every outing.

Probably not recommended today but remember William Bell killed over one thousand elephants with a 275 Rigby. A rifle less powerful than a 308 or 30-06. How did he do it? He knew how to aim.
 
Lots of good advice here.

One interesting fact is how the 30-06 got its name. Very simply it is a 30 caliber developed in 1906. Old rifles will sometimes read 30 Government on the bbl stamp. Lots of things have happened since 1906 with rifles and calibers.

If you figure on Alaska hunting, I'd opt for nothing less than a 300 winchester magnum. It is an amazing caliber and will do everything you want to do. Personally, I wouldn't hunt in Alaska with anything less than a 338 mag... but I actually enjoy recoil. Yeah, I'm sick like that. :D

There are so many good options and choices nowdays... It's a good problem to have. But, the fact is you will probably want more than one before it is all said and done. It's not altogether different than knife selection.

Is one knife the right answer for all applications... hell no! I feel practically nekkid without a Battle mistress, NMSFNO, SHSJ, Boss Jack, Boss Street, BAD, etc... and so on and so forth...

And that is just my EDC... :D



A man needs more than one rifle. :cool:
 
The military rifles built on the Remington 700 action are essentially custom rifles. They're completely accurized by the appropriately qualified armorers, and rebuilt as frequently as needed. They really can't be compared to a stock rifle any more than a Nascar vehicle can be compared to something off the lot.
 
+1 on those Tikka T3 rifles. They do a nice job. A friend of mine bought one recently and brought it by. The out of box trigger was real sweet and the quality of the rifle was very good. If you go to their website you can read about the various features they build into their guns.
 
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Peter, your wealth of knowledge and experience is wonderfully deep. I feel fortunate to have found access to your knowledge base. The first thing I thought when I read the request for a comparison between .308 and .30-06 was, the best answer to that question may be the 300 WSM--milder recoil and similar ballistics to the 300 Win Mag.

Could you compare recoil for us, in your experience, between the 300 WSM and the .30-06 using comparable bullets and similar-weight rifles? I've not fired a 300 WSM but do have a couple of 270 WSM rifles that have very mild recoil, wonderful ballistics and sub-MOA accuracy.

Thank you sir,
Alferd
 
Alferd Packer said:
Peter, your wealth of knowledge and experience is wonderfully deep. I feel fortunate to have found access to your knowledge base. The first thing I thought when I read the request for a comparison between .308 and .30-06 was, the best answer to that question may be the 300 WSM--milder recoil and similar ballistics to the 300 Win Mag.

Could you compare recoil for us, in your experience, between the 300 WSM and the .30-06 using comparable bullets and similar-weight rifles? I've not fired a 300 WSM but do have a couple of 270 WSM rifles that have very mild recoil, wonderful ballistics and sub-MOA accuracy.

Thank you sir,
Alferd
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The 30-06 because it goes back to 1906 has much milder recoil in factory ammo ... the ammo needs to account for the "old" rifles which are out there ... and the 300 WSM came out in 2001 so the factory ammo is often found at the upper end of the "pressure" band that the case can take which has factory loads in the range of 62,000 to 63,500 PSI with a 200 grain bullet ... with the true limit of the case being 65,000 PSI.

The 30-06 with factory ammo and using a 200 grain bullet is usually in the range of 41,000 all the way up to 47,000 PSI ... a lot less pressure and thus less recoil. However if you re-load you can take the 30-06 up to 57,000 to 58,000 PSI with a 200 grain bullet and it will take 58 to 59 grains of powder at around a "compressed" load which is safe in a modern rifle.

So if you "handload" you can take the 30-06 up to the zone of the 300 WSM but not quite there. However for the purposes of hunting and knocking down game there is little to choose as they both "pitch" in the same weight category of animals which can be safely taken with these bullets. The WSM takes loads up to 68 to 69 grains of powder for 200 grain bullets before reaching a "compressed" load ... so ballistically there is always an advantage to it and if you use this then recoil will be more.

However if the rifle "fits" then the recoil is not so much an issue of discomfort but simply effects how quick you can recover for another shot ... the timings though are in fractions of a second I suspect ... for me using stalking rifles in both calibres of close to similar weights ... the 30-06 if using factory ammo is noticeably tamer ... on re-loads there is not much in it if they are hot 30-06 rounds and factory level 300 WSM rounds.
 
lsheldon said:
From what I've seen stated, the shorter action is stiffer and has less felt recoil both resulting in better accuracy for the shooter.

EDIT: In addition to a shorter throw for the bolt, hence a quicker firing cycle for semi-autos.
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Absolutely. Ilike the 308. In the end there should be more available. The short action in abolt also cycles faster. It also allows for forward positioed scope for faster target acquisition om moving targets:cool:

The only negative I could think of is that 308 prices seem to fluctuate more in price due surplus or shortages due to wartime. Imho
 
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