32-35K to spend on a car.

If I were getting another car for ~$35k (and could keep my present ones), I'd get a Subaru STi.

If I had to get rid of one present car, keep one present car, and get one new car, I'd order a MINI Cooper S with the 200HP John Cooper Works kit, 16" SSR Comp wheels and some really good tires.

Bias-Reavealing Disclaimer:
I already have a MINI Cooper S and a Subaru WRX wagon.:D

So I'd only get rid of our MINI for another MINI, and would never give up the functionality of the WRX wagon for an alternate in that price range.
 
Another to consider is an Infiniti G35X sports sedan--AWD version that is being introduced in early December. Wonderful cars (I recently purchased a 6 speed manual trans after ALOT of research). Seriously thought about delaying my purchase for the AWD, but decided I wanted the manual trans--AWD is being initially introduced with the auto trans only.

Don't like the Subie's looks, huh? Honestly can't blame you...same thing turned me off. However, if your event horizon for purchase stretches to late spring, the 2005 Subaru Legacy actually (IMO) looks really nice and rather powerful...ie along the lines of a G35 or one of the higher 3 series. FWIW, here is a link to pics/article over at C & D

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=29&article_id=7028&page_number=1

best of luck in whatever you decide,
Glenmore
 
I'm going to have to go with a gently used Audi S4 Quattro. That way you get decent speed and power, as well as the ability to handle in the snow. If you want a Mercedes, the C-240 with the 4-Matic all wheel drive is nice. The aforementioned BMW 325 Xi is sweet too. Currently, I drive a C-Class but my next car will definity be an Audi Quattro.
 
Anyone tried a Volvo S60-R model?

Mercedes 4-matic? Hmmm...

With traction control, almost any of the Mercedes in a gently used state could be contenders. Same goes for the upper end Japanese models, in addition to the other German cars. Any of the cars built for the Northern European market are probably a good choice for your daily driving needs. Add nice powerful V-8 or power tuned 6 and you'd have a good fun car.
 
Hey, The Tourist.

I'm in the same position. I have a 1997 F-150, and I'd like something new. It snows here, I've had a Mustang, and I've seen the ricers performance, or lack of performance.
You said 35K, but you can get an Audi Quattro TT in my area for 39K. Snow tires can be had, it can be ordered with a 6-speed, and yes, I've seen it go.
Click to expand...

I know that for some reason you hate "ricers" but how is a 1.8l turbo I-4 from germany any different? The TT may have fantastic styling, but its performance hasnt gotten much praise, it typically loses every Car and Driver comparison test it enters. Its 0 to 60 time is 6.9s, that makes it slower than the subaru Forester turbo (5.3s to 60),it only costs 15k more, and doesnt have a usable back seat, how is this better, The TT's perfromance is even worse when compared to the WRX and is crushed by the WRX STI that has M3 like performance. I hate hotrodded fwd underperfoming Civics as much as the next guy, but why are you so prejudice against Japanese cars?
 
LizardKing,

It's not that I hate ricers, per se, just because they're ricers. I just don't like things of poor quality. And the build quality of most ricers (and that includes the Focus and the STI) is tragic. You can gold-plate a Legacy, but at the end of the day, it's still a Legacy.

You guys must be using different tires or fuel or gravity in your parts of the country. We have WRX's here, and guys to 'tweak' them. We have a six lane road out of town called Hwy 51 East, and the hot shoes usually light 'em up going around by East Towne. More than once, my wife and I have noticed that a young man in a ricer slams the throttle to the floor, the engine screams and the car goes nowhere. Yikes, any typical V-8 would have been into the next county by the time the ricer hooks up. I have a 5-speed 4.6 liter F-150 and I beat a ricer in a third gear roll on. He fell back so fast I thought someone had nailed him to the tarmac.

Now, I did drive a 225 horse, 6-speed Quattro TT. Oy. Fantastic build quality. The salesman let me 'coax it' a might on some back roads, and trust me, there is NO turbo lag or hesitation to hook up. The car accelerated so fast it caught me napping for the next gear! (The gear box is a bit notchy, but that could be because the TT I drove was brand new. I did make many seamless shifts)

I think that a great many guys are not actually driving these cars. They see movies like '2 Asian 2 Accelerate' and think these shiny cars are all fast. I have news, they are 'Hollywood cars.' For example, the Roots blower in Mad Max was a fake. The belt turned by an electric motor, and no forced air was pushed into the engine. These cars have to look cool, not actually perform. Further, the Mustang in 'Gone in 60 Seconds' was replaced by CGI for some of the more bizarre scenes. Nice car, but it doesn't fly.

Read some car mags, get your hands dirty, drive a lot of cars. Then come back here and tell me that you can actually make a STI do a four-wheel drift, just like on TV. The torque curve of a TT is pretty flat, and I know, I drove one.
 
From my experience with Audi/Volkwagan and with Subaru, i would guess that you are right that the germans have much high build quality than Subaru, and certainly have nicer interiors, but the subarus are just so cheap.
 
Originally posted by The Tourist
LizardKing,

It's not that I hate ricers, per se, just because they're ricers. I just don't like things of poor quality. And the build quality of most ricers (and that includes the Focus and the STI) is tragic. You can gold-plate a Legacy, but at the end of the day, it's still a Legacy. [snip]

Read some car mags, get your hands dirty, drive a lot of cars. Then come back here and tell me that you can actually make a STI do a four-wheel drift, just like on TV. The torque curve of a TT is pretty flat, and I know, I drove one.
Click to expand...

Wow, so much hate for just one post!:(

BTW, my WRX wagon has over 47,000 miles on it in 25 months, has been rallycrossed in stock class for two seasons, and nothing ... nothing has broken on it. There are NO squeaks or rattles.

I have every belief that the STi is built to an equal or higher standard and has a stronger/better drivetrain; the difference being the STi is a true high-performance machine and lacks a lot of sound-deadening material, etc. (not unlike the lightweight offerings from BMW and Porsche).

Tell you what, the STi four-wheel drift thing is just too easy. How about you enter the Audi TT in a rallycross, and transport four of your friends and their dog to the event. Then, after you drop them off, you can stop at a furniture store and load your TT with two hardwood end tables, a coffee table and a console table (all disasembled/boxed in original packaging) and drive them home. I can assure you I can do the above in my faster, less expensive Subaru.
:D :p
 
Donutsrule,

No hate, that's not my style. I might have a sharp, acerbic tongue, but it's definitely planted in my cheek.;)

I've just gotten to the age where plastic and build quality really matter. And I've found that published statistics are usually 'favorable.' For example, I've seen data where a Ford Mustang Cobra is published to be 'within an eyelash of a 'Vette. The street doesn't share that optimistic rhetoric.

I think ricers are built cheap, that's my opinion.

edit: To be fair, I did a cursory sweep for data in yahoo on the STI. You should read it, and apply logic. For example, one spec sheet reports that the STI does 0-60 in 4.8, but 0-70 in +6 seconds. Huh? What did the guy do during that time, stop for an oil change?

For a STI to be an honest 4.8, it would be in Cobra and Lightning country. Even the WRX of last year was rated 0-60 in 7.3, fully two seconds slower than the V-8's. I don't think that little car goes that fast. And they are not beating the F-150 Lightnings here; in fact, they don't challenge them much, at all.

But that's only ONE facet. I'm not going to be racing my TT every stoplight; I didn't do that with my Mustang. In four years, I had perhaps six honest duels. Yikes, I'm 53! A car for me is a singular thing, I cannot afford a fleet. And truth be told, I'd rather commute in an Audi than a Legacy.

Now, for 'dislikes,' don't get me started on Chevys!:D
 
Originally posted by The Tourist
I think ricers are built cheap, that's my opinion.
Click to expand...

[Inigo Montoya] You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.[/Inigo]

Is your definition of "ricer" any car made in Japan? Because that isn't the common definition at all and sounds more like an ugly stereotype of all things Japanese.

Explanation of the conventional definition of "ricer":
They aren't built that way from the factory, they are made through the overzealous usage of cheap aftermarket parts, like fart-can exhausts, LED washer nozzles, decals, giant spoilers for 70hp cars, etc.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ricer
 
Originally posted by donutsrule

Is your definition of "ricer" any car made in Japan? Because that isn't the common definition at all and sounds more like an ugly stereotype of all things Japanese.

Click to expand...

He did refer to a Ford Focus as being a ricer, so I would guess no.
 
Originally posted by fishbulb
He did refer to a Ford Focus as being a ricer, so I would guess no.
Click to expand...

Good point. So it must be anything not made in the good ol' USA with a V-8 or not expensive and from Europe?

Here's some more of those Subaru and Ford Focus ricers;)
diapoa_114.jpg


diapo_112.jpg


diapoa_116.jpg
 
the new awd golf?

Whats its cost supposed to be?


As for the WRX styling, its just not my cup of tea. If styling was unimportant It would be easy to pick a car, just look at the numbers. But its styling WITH numbers that matter.

I was thinking of a 356 speedster replica but none have roll up windows. Not high on the performance numbers but through the roof on styling.

Too many choices..Not enough money. My dream house is a studio apartment with a parking garage attached.


Paul
 
For example, one spec sheet reports that the STI does 0-60 in 4.8, but 0-70 in +6 seconds. Huh? What did the guy do during that time, stop for an oil change?
Click to expand...

Okay, so the car was tuned for a Magazine test report :)

Lot's of cars have true performance shortfalls due to car rags publishing and praising 0-60 times above all else.
 
Infinity is going to produce a AWD version of the G35 sedan, that "might" fall into your price range and would be a great car to own.
 
Well, I have a lot of friends into very nice cars (it's SoCal, after all).

Here's a quick review of some fast cars that I'm familiar with that should be in your price range.

--------------

Audi TT: Friend used to have the non-S, non-Quattro version. The 1.8T engine is a very, very good engine. Especially if you're willing to spend a little money on modifications - can make it a lot, lot faster. Wouldn't recommend the TT though - has bad driver visibility, and is very small with a virtually worthless back seat. Take a look at the A4 instead. Also, the Quattro is heavy, expensive, and increases drive train power loss - don't get it unless you really think you need it.

Audi A4: Great car, a real bargain. Check out audiworld.com. You can get a low end one for cheap (~$24k). Get the 1.8T - very reliable. Don't get the quattro. Don't get the V6. Don't get the sportmatic - get a stick shift. Very luxurious, especially compared with japanese rivals. Easy to modify. Good warranty. Very stylish. Overall, a great car, especially for the price. Very safe. I know a lot of people who have totalled their A4's - and walked away without being hurt. Has a lot of airbags and good overall design.

Audi S4 (used): Crazy fast, and light. Know someone with one that runs high 12's STOCK. No joke. But, not very reliable. And, over your price range. From what I've heard, Audi has been losing money on this one with engine and turbo replacements. Stay away unless you're really brave.

BMW 3-series: Don't bother unless you really want the BMW badge. Nice cars, but not a good value in comparison to the A4 and others.

BMW E46 M3 (used): Has real engine problems. Have a friend who's father is a BMW Shop foreman, and from what I've heard, I wouldn't recommend buying one, even new. Not as fast as the STi.

Infinity G35: The coupe has near 50/50 weight distribution, and corners on a dime. Very stylish and fairly fast (mid 14's, I believe). Not much can be done to modify it, but - who cares. Good value. Nicest seats available in any car, IMO. Great for an every day driver. I wouldn't wait for the AWD - it is so well balanced, it doesn't seem like it would be a big help. Oh yeah, very safe. My good friend wrapped his around a telephone pole and walked away without a scratch. By all rights, he should've died. Good thing for the excellent design and huge number of air bags.

Nissan 350z: The G35 coupe is a better value. Seriously. Get it instead.

Subaru WRX: Cool car. Very fast. Can be made even faster with mods. The STi is very quick (faster than an M3). But, if fast is all you're looking for, buy a regular WRX and throw on a monster turbo. The STi doesn't seem like as good of a value as the Evo. Had a friend with a modified street WRX that ran in the high 11's. Great car, until it lost compression in a cylinder. From what I hear, they have some engine problems. Also - insurance is HIGH on these.

Mitusbishi Evo: Cool car, fast. Not a bad value. I vaguely know someone with one, but haven't actually spent much time with one to say much more.

Volkswagen GTI: Super nice car. I hope to buy one in the next year or so. Can be made very fast. The 1.8T is a great engine (read above Audi posts), easy to modify, and can be made to be fast. (A chip alone can add a LOT of horse power thanks to the turbo) I don't think I'd get the R32 - all wheel drive = drive train loss + more money. Plus, the VR6 is not as modify-able. Also, the 1.8T is lighter = better cornering. Look into a 20th anniversary GTI - great value. Good warranty too (4 year, 50,000 miles + roadside assistance + other goodies).

Dodge Neon SRT-4: Fast. Cheap. Seems like a steal. I've heard stories of people dyno-ing their SRT-4's, and getting insane wheel HP - STOCK. I've also heard that they can be very fast - more so than average - if you get the right one. Way under your price range, and not a very luxurious car in comparison to the rest, but hey, it's worth mentioning if you like fast cars. Probably not very safe compared to others.

-------------

That's all I can think of for now.

My recommendation:

Go test drive the G35 Coupe, the A4, and either the WRX or the EVO. Pick the one that you like most.

If you want a fast car stock, maybe the WRX or EVO is for you. But, they're kind a small.

If you want a more luxurious car, better looking car, look at the A4. Especially if you're willing to do minor mods like a chip.

If you want the best daily driver and overall nicest car, look at the G35. Not really modifyable, but man, it is a sweet car.

Good luck!

-- Rob
 
I think you have raised some salient points. True, any little cheap eco-box with a puffer, a large diameter exhaust pipe, a stereo with too much base and purple windshield wipers, is in my neck of the woods, a "ricer."

It's history, I guess. The first Mustangs were made out of Falcon parts. The factories want to build something with flash from parts already in the inventory.

To that, the guys with Vettes and Vipers don't usually troll for ricers, so you rarely (if ever) see that match-up. But you do see eco-boxes with fuel brewed in the home garage attempting to drag-race V-8's in hopeless suicide. They would be better off challenging them to a tour through some twisting roads.

This is all a mute point. Next year Dodge is putting an aluminum Viper engine (with a six speed) into a Ram truck. Say what you wish, cry in your beer, throw endless statistics, but the fact is when the first truck hits the streets, it's the end of 'the age of rice.'

BTW, as I've said, local F-150 Lightnings hunt ricers here. Until next year, all Lightnings have automatic transmissions. I haven't seen one guy who can shift a 6-speed that fast. It gets worse. To match the Ram, Ford is putting a Cobra engine and a 6-speed into the Lightning. Trucks seem to be the coming thing.
 
Originally posted by The Tourist
I think you have raised some salient points. True, any little cheap eco-box with a puffer, a large diameter exhaust pipe, a stereo with too much base and purple windshield wipers, is in my neck of the woods, a "ricer."

It's history, I guess. The first Mustangs were made out of Falcon parts. The factories want to build something with flash from parts already in the inventory.

To that, the guys with Vettes and Vipers don't usually troll for ricers, so you rarely (if ever) see that match-up. But you do see eco-boxes with fuel brewed in the home garage attempting to drag-race V-8's in hopeless suicide. They would be better off challenging them to a tour through some twisting roads.

This is all a mute point. Next year Dodge is putting an aluminum Viper engine (with a six speed) into a Ram truck. Say what you wish, cry in your beer, throw endless statistics, but the fact is when the first truck hits the streets, it's the end of 'the age of rice.'

BTW, as I've said, local F-150 Lightnings hunt ricers here. Until next year, all Lightnings have automatic transmissions. I haven't seen one guy who can shift a 6-speed that fast. It gets worse. To match the Ram, Ford is putting a Cobra engine and a 6-speed into the Lightning. Trucks seem to be the coming thing.
Click to expand...

I enjoyed my Lightning immensly, but lately around here they seem to be driven by younger kids who want to race everything that moves. I sold it for a Z06 Corvette, and yeah I don't bother wasting my gas on folks looking for a race.

For the topic at hand, my vote for a non-rwd vehicle in your price range would be either the the Subaru WRX or a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution.

Edit - bad spelling day...
 
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