32-35K to spend on a car.

[Sundsvall]

Originally posted by Nismo
I dont know how accurate these stats are from www.car-stats.com http://www.car-stats.com/stats/search/choosemake.aspx but a bone stock
sti clearly destroys the lightnings times
lightning- 13.8 @ 104
Sti- 13.2 @ 105
heck, my 4door japanese "family" car is capable of mid 13s in the 1/4mile.

ps. please dont take this as me starting a flame war, Im just going about the stats that I see.

I don't know much about trucks but I do know a little about cars.

Hmm let me see:

A large heavy vehicle that has a high center of balance shaped like a brick against a small aerodynamic, low center of gravity vehicle that is about 1000 lbs lighter.

Additionally, the larger vehicle needs a 5.8 litre V8 to put down a 2.5 Litre flat four and probably gets half the gas milage.

This seems a little silly.

Tourist, just because you can take on a POS 1998 Honda civic with a loud exhaust does not impute anything to the cars that will eat your Ford Lightnings lunch.

Also, the Ford only has a chance in a drag race, if the road has any turns, it will not be any challange for any of the "good" import tuned vehicles. Don't even try to convince me that a truck can corner better than a road rocket that is a few inches off the ground and weighs roughly a 1000lbs less with a tuned suspension and comparable hp and torque figures.

 

[AnklePocket]

Acura TL

 

[Blisshead]

All wheel drive BMW 325xi. Can you say PERFECTLY balanced? Not the fastest you can afford, but remeber, heaven is not right around the corner, heaven IS the corner.

edit: you also get high build quality and many creature comforts.

 

[K Williams]

Subaru WRX STi
VW GTI(in any variation)
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo
BMW 3-series
Lexus IS300

 

[The Tourist]

Sundsvall,



If some pimply faced loser put a large-can exhaust, purple windshield wipers and used a loud bass audio system to play gansta rap music despite the fact he was white AND HE DID THAT TO A LEXUS, yes, yes, yes, it's a ricer.

I believe that in major population centers, there are skilled mechanics who take 20K Asian cars, and using +20K of parts (usually a complete rebuild or replacement of the motor) and these modifications make the smaller Asian automoble competitive with larger American V-8s.

That's about as clear as I can say it. And it ain't in Madison, Wisconsin.

In five years, perhaps. In the midwest we are always a few years behind the curve of the west coast. I think giant-killer mods will live beyond the short attention span of most people.

Of course, this group will be about 27 years of age at that time, and I think 20K (additional cash to spend on mods) might be a stretch. True, I would spend more than 50% of my income in those days on custom Harleys, but I lived in a crappy apartment on Maher; even the guys in my club were starting to marry and have kids by that age.

My guess, oh crystal ball, is that in five years I will see a tasty west coast Asian tuned vehicle on East Washington. And it will be competitive.

But most Madisonians will scratch their heads and say, "Now where did that California car come from?"

edit: BTW, in your specs on the Lightnings, what makes you think that a guy savvy enough to own a Lightning won't make a few 'minor' changes? Just changing the air flow or increasing the PSI of the blower can bring an additional 50 horsepower.

It seems in these debates that the Asian cars can receive mods, pick the road, change their tire compound and get the benefit of a competitent driver. The Cobra or the Lightning has to race box-stock on a road where their advantage is negated.

As for the specs, yes I refute them. Every major magazine and TV show says the STi figures are hyped and frankly I don't see why. Even if the little car ran anywhere near to Cobra, that's quite a feat for a little four-banger. The hype makes the whole thing looked rigged, probably to sell cars.

 

[Skyline]

Originally posted by The Tourist
I will tell you this, and this is from research on the 'web, a TV review and emperical (sp?) observation. I think the WRX STi is over-hyped, and I don't know why. Why can't these marketing guys show it for what it is? It will go 0-60 in sightly over 7 seconds; that's good for a four-banger. But why advertise it at 5.6 seconds? It will never do that in the street, and the guy (probably younger) who leverages a big loan of +30 thousand is going to be heart-broken and mislead when both a Cobra and a truck beat him easily. Hill-climbing is not big in my area, so acceleration races are the ultimate test.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=6640&page_number=2

But there it is: a sprint of 4.6 to 60 mph, 0.4-second faster than the Mitsubishi and a figure that's going to be hard to achieve in any car near the STi's $31,520 base price. Our 5-to-60-mph street-start sprint of 5.8 is a more realistic, less-abusive gauge of real-world acceleration.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0306_frstsub/index2.html

Also, our STi was a barely broken-in, preproduction model. So, while these numbers are highly representative--and amazingly close--they're not 100 percent like-kind... 0-60 mph, sec: 4.87; 1/4-mile, sec@mph: 13.23@104.6

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=592&page_number=2&preview=

Both cars recorded smoldering 0-60-mph times on a par with some European exotics with the Evo clocking 4.8 seconds (better than in the last test by 0.3 sec. due to a change of surface) and the WRX STi at 4.9.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0307scc_stievo/index.html

The STi, we can report, is the king of this contest. Burnouts, powerslides, drifts, more burnouts--you name it. If it involves brute force and spinning tires, then it's in the STi's repertoire. Launching the car is easy; far easier, in fact, than launching the EVO. Dial in as many revs as you want and feed out the clutch. The result, at any engine speed above 3500 rpm, is spinning tires. Four spinning tires. More revs equal more wheelspin. And it's painfully fast. Zero to 60 in 4.9 seconds. Through the 1,320 in 13.1 seconds at 105 mph. That's .4 seconds quicker to 60 and .3 seconds quicker in the quarter mile than the EVO. Not only that, but the STi feels indestructible. The six-speed box notches solidly between gears with a more hard-edged, mechanical engagement than the EVO's cable-shifted box. This is good, since you'll be shifting more in the STi. What's more, the clutch can be modulated to produce launches which will punish brain cells on a level usually reserved for Naval aviators. And it will do it time after time. No wimpy clutch here, thank you very much.

 

[The Tourist]

Do you want this to denigrate to throwing 'expert testimony' at each other?

I just saw a car show on cable that said the car was hyped. The reason I believed that particular report was that, lo and behold, the car they ran it agaist was a Cobra.

It's a nice car. I happen to like other things.

edit: I'm getting bored with this thread. I've stated my position is so many polite ways that my pancreas is starting to get a sugar rush. This is my last entry on this ridiculous subject.

If you like the STi, terrific, buy one, may you be eternally happy. But please study history. The first Mustang, hyped as a 'sport vehicle,' was actually a Ford Falcon under the tin-ware. And so it goes.

Now for Sundsvall. Oh, you clever debater, I see the error of my ways. I'm going to quit eating meat and I'm going on a rice diet. How could my eyes have fooled me! You've won, you've won.

Happy?

edit: I don't believe in hype, even for the cars I like.

For example, my wife and I just got back from Borders where we spent the afternoon. I was just reading an article on the new GTO, which is based on the Holden, an Australian car originally built with a 351 Cleveland engine. It now has a Corvette engine.

The author wrote tha this new GTO goes 0-60 in 5.3 seconds, "just a tick slower that a Cobra or a Corvette."

I immediately knew this author was using a 'STi stopwatch.'

They are faced with a marketing problem; that is how can they sell a GTO as fast sport vehicle, and not steal the thunder of a Corvette. Most car guys go by zero to sixty figures, and anything under 6.0 seconds is considered fast.

So they tag the GTO a 5.3 second car but with the modifier that a Corvette is faster. This appeases the Corvette guys, and satifies the egos of the GTO guys. After all, a GTO can think, if I can get a good hook-up, I just might be able to beat that 'Vette.

The problem is that this statement makes a Cobra a 5.0 second car, which it ain't. As dearly as I love it, a Mustang is not in Countach, Carrara, or Diablo country. It's hype.

BTW, don't cut and paste somebody else's figures. Drive the cars, drive the competition. In fact, I'll bet you that an unskilled younger driver doesn't have the finesse to 'heel and toe' shift a Cobra under 7.0 seconds. A peaky engine is worse. Several weeks ago I drove an Audi TT Quattro with a six speed; I had just left a torquey truck. Yup, I mangled several shifts until I got it smooth. These cars with radical torque figures are very difficult to launch.

 

[ljasonl]

Originally posted by The Tourist
Most car guys go by zero to sixty figures, and anything under 6.0 seconds is considered fast.

I've never met a true car enthusiast who gives two craps about 0-60 times. That's for magazine racers.

Originally posted by The Tourist
In fact, I'll bet you that an unskilled younger driver doesn't have the finesse to 'heel and toe' shift a Cobra under 7.0 seconds.

Do you even know what heel-toeing is? Then tell me why you would need to operate the brake pedal while you're going for an acceleration run?

Originally posted by The Tourist
These cars with radical torque figures are very difficult to launch.

Method to launching an STi or EVO -
1. push in clutch
2. gas pedal to floor
3. release clutch quickly
4. hold on

If you consider that difficult, perhaps you should try public transportation.

 

[Skyline]

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?..._code=reviews&loc_code=&content_code=02698840

We also ran it through the speedway’s drag strip, our usual testing location, and got it from 0 to 60 in 4.78 seconds and through the quarter-mile in 13.36 seconds at 100.2 mph. Better than everything outside of the supercar range.

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2240.shtml

In contrast, the WRX STi has a softer clutch, and more typical all-wheel-drive hesitation on launch, but then rockets to 60 in 5.1 seconds. The 1/4 mile time is 13.8 seconds, at 100 miles- per-hour. Massive mid-range pull makes up for the start line stutter. As does the light, accurate shifter. Power starts down low, and then hits like a truck at 5,000 rpm. Gear ratios are perfectly spaced, to keep the engine in its 6-to-7,000 rpm sweet spot all through the run.

 

[Sundsvall]

Tourist,

All your testimony doesn't address the issue that I am pointing out to you.

The fact that you call ALL asian cars "ricers" is derogatory and inflammatory.

You don't see me making references to pickup trucks as "redneck" conveyances.

So I would appreciate a little cultural sensitivity in regards to the use of the word "ricer" as you are using to put down an entire region of cars and it is not accurate.

Got it?

 

[fishbulb]

Originally posted by Sundsvall
The fact that you call ALL asian cars "ricers" is derogatory and inflammatory.

You don't see me making references to pickup trucks as "redneck" conveyances.

So I would appreciate a little cultural sensitivity in regards to the use of the word "ricer" as you are using to put down an entire region of cars and it is not accurate.

It would be more accurate to compare calling Asian cars "Rice Burners" to calling European cars "Wheatmobiles" or "Barley Burners" and calling North American vehicles "Maize Machines" or "Corn Cars".

The names do not denigrate the culture or characteristics of the people in these regions, it simply makes reference to the historical staple food crop of civilizations in these areas.

Unless one believes that there is something inherently wrong with these crops it is difficult to see how this could be considered "derogatory, inflammatory", and lacking in "cultural sensitivity".

It is a bit odd, perhaps; but not worthy of the level of offense which some people find in it.

 

[Sundsvall]

Originally posted by Sundsvall
Actually it is cut and dry.

"Import tuners" strive to gain performance with some aesthetic enhancements.

"Ricers" strive to conform to a tasteless aesthetic with no regard to actual driving performance which often times severly reduces performance.

If you do not make this distinction, then it is obvious that all asian made cars are, to you at least, "ricers".

And furthermore, within that definition, you consider "ricers" to be inferior to F150 lightnings and cobras.

Discrimination, by definition, is the separation of a group because of race or creed.

Thus, you are a disciminating a car category because of its asian origin, labeling it a "ricer".

I don't think it can be any more clear than that.

Actually, it has nothing to do with the staples of a culture.
It is a modern slang term that denigrates the a vehicle because of its poor aftermarket engineering and frankenstein-like modification.

I am pointing out that it is an insult for him to use the term so freely to describe an entire category of vehicles of asian origin.

I am not the only one to point this out.

 

[donutsrule]

Originally posted by The Tourist

The problem is that this statement makes a Cobra a 5.0 second car, which it ain't. As dearly as I love it, a Mustang is not in Countach, Carrara, or Diablo country. It's hype.

The Cobra is a "5 second car" but the supercars waved goodbye to 5 seconds long ago. The Diablo came out 13 years ago, the Countach came out in the 1970s and was old by the time Miami Vice was cancelled, so you're sorta out of touch.
The SVT Mustang Cobra, Evo and STi would all wipe the floor with most of the "Supercars" of the 70s and many of the 80s for a fraction of their relative cost.
In case you were wondering, current Lamborghinis include the Gallardo (0-62 in 4.2, V-10, all-wheel drive) and the Murcielago (0-60 3.8, V-12, all-wheel drive); and the new Porsche Carrera is pretty fast, too(0-62 3.8, V-10, rwd).

Drive the cars, drive the competition. In fact, I'll bet you that an unskilled younger driver doesn't have the finesse to 'heel and toe' shift a Cobra under 7.0 seconds.

This last sentence is a non sequitur. How much do you know about driving techniques? The "heel and toe" I'm familiar with is a downshifting technique and doesn't come into play in when accelerating. Is there some other "heel and toe" in drag racing (I don't drag so maybe?) or are you just completely out of your element and talking out of your hiney?

Also, the SVT Cobra can do 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds driven by a good driver. If you can't do it in under 7, it's probably because you started the car in third gear and stalled it.

 

[K Williams]

Originally posted by donutsrule
and the new Porsche Carrera is pretty fast, too(0-62 3.8, V-10, rwd).

V-10?!? A Porsche Carrera with a V-10 engine? When did this happen? No more flat-6 engine? Say it ain't so...

 

[Snow]

It seems in these debates that the Asian cars can receive mods, pick the road, change their tire compound and get the benefit of a competitent driver. The Cobra or the Lightning has to race box-stock on a road where their advantage is negated.

So true, so true.

 

[donutsrule]

Originally posted by K Williams
V-10?!? A Porsche Carrera with a V-10 engine? When did this happen? No more flat-6 engine? Say it ain't so...

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad tidings.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=7366

A little rich for my blood at $440,000, and from their reports not something you'd want to drive every day. Still, it would be fun to drive someone else's on a track some day.

 

[Nismo]

Originally posted by Snow
So true, so true.

but thats not the case in this debate

Now if we were talking about modifying anything then its a whole different ballgame.

 

[Snow]

I agree; that's not the case in this debate. I just hate how in MOST debates like this driver A tells driver B, "Well on THIS track my car would win because blah blah blah."

Tourist kind of has a reputation for running into arguments. I'm not trying to defend him in this case.