3v HRC Debacle

craytab said:
Exactly. Why this is so difficult to understand and be so wrong in the process, I don't get.
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Right. Do I think it was stupid of them to run it at 55 HRC to begin with? Yes but they didn't advertise it as anything different. They just said it was intentional. If they're going to run M4 at 62ish I don't see them running 3v at 55 just to save money on grinding. They could just as easily run M4 that low.

They tried something, it didn't work, and they fixed it.

Benchmade is listening. This is good in my eyes.

insta9ves said:
This is very true. The double standard is strong here when it comes to companies doing product improvements.
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When Spyderco had issues with their Advocate flipper they CQI'd it but made no apology. They still maintained that if a professional would have taken it apart and put the knife together it would have been fine. But because an amateur did it they didn't do it correctly.

Sometimes people get on which hunts with knife comanies. The 3v issue was a poor choice on their part nothing malicious.

Now let's focus on things what matter like reported HRC being accurate.
 
The only bad part about all of this is everyone who bought one at the lower hardness. But if Benchmade is giving free replacement blades to everyone who asks, then that issue is solved. I just wish they would've made a bigger announcement about it rather than just an Instagram comment.
 
tomhosang said:
The only bad part about all of this is everyone who bought one at the lower hardness. But if Benchmade is giving free replacement blades to everyone who asks, then that issue is solved. I just wish they would've made a bigger announcement about it rather than just an Instagram comment.
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In the grand scheme of things, how many who purchased the Bailout actually use it enough to tell the difference, or even care about the difference?

I don't think BM sees the previous hardness number as mistake, just different design choices, and the new hardness is an update. Do you ask to Ford to replace your 2019 F150 with 2020 model year because there's some updates/improvements being made in the 2020 year model? Do you ask apple to replace your Macbook pro you bought last year because they increased the CPU speed by 10% this year for the same computer? If it's not a defect, i don't think people are entitled(seems to be the default mindset nowadays) to get a replacement.

Like BMC mentioned above, the real issue is advertising something and so something different. In this case Benchmade did not falsely advertise or lie.
 
insta9ves said:
In the grand scheme of things, how many who purchased the Bailout actually use it enough to tell the difference, or even care about the difference?

I don't think BM sees the previous hardness number as mistake, just different design choices, and the new hardness is an update. Do you ask to Ford to replace your 2019 F150 with 2020 model year because there's some updates/improvements being made in the 2020 year model? Do you ask apple to replace your Macbook pro you bought last year because they increased the CPU speed by 10% this year for the same computer? If it's not a defect, i don't think people are entitled(seems to be the default mindset nowadays) to get a replacement.

Like BMC mentioned above, the real issue is advertising something and so something different. In this case Benchmade did not falsely advertise or lie.
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That's absolutely fair. Great points. Kinda like what Spyderco does with their CQI stuff. Just because they've made revisions to a model doesn't mean you can get a free upgrade since you bought the pre-CQI.
 
insta9ves said:
In the grand scheme of things, how many who purchased the Bailout actually use it enough to tell the difference, or even care about the difference?

I don't think BM sees the previous hardness number as mistake, just different design choices, and the new hardness is an update. Do you ask to Ford to replace your 2019 F150 with 2020 model year because there's some updates/improvements being made in the 2020 year model? Do you ask apple to replace your Macbook pro you bought last year because they increased the CPU speed by 10% this year for the same computer? If it's not a defect, i don't think people are entitled(seems to be the default mindset nowadays) to get a replacement.

Like BMC mentioned above, the real issue is advertising something and so something different. In this case Benchmade did not falsely advertise or lie.
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it is a desastrous mistake and of course a defect and they know it. from a tooling to marketing over an economical to a brand recognition standpoint - its a all inclusive desastrous event par excellence for a knife company to be considered a misleading joke with a gimmicky item.

they pulled the rockwell-numbers alltogether from their website for this knife not bc of fun or boredom. they didnt pulled it from the 'tactical' section just for fun either. in fact its a plasticy gimmicky buttery soft knife advertised as a lil tough guy for tough guys in tough situations. it aint. none of it. i aint a law expert but there where way more insignificant nuances labeled and sucessfully judged as misleading marketing.
your analogies dont hold any water bc the macbook isnt advertised to be out of the box nasa-approved-moon-flying-stuff and ford isnt advertising f150s as nascar or f1 winning cars. and if they do - the potential customer has all right to think that they now completely have lost sanity.
trust is immensive valueable for customer relations - as a business you shouldnt put it on the line
 
stitched lips said:
it is a desastrous mistake and of course a defect and they know it. from a tooling to marketing over an economical to a brand recognition standpoint - its a all inclusive desastrous event par excellence for a knife company to be considered a misleading joke with a gimmicky item.

they pulled the rockwell-numbers alltogether from their website for this knife not bc of fun or boredom. they didnt pulled it from the 'tactical' section just for fun either. in fact its a plasticy gimmicky buttery soft knife advertised as a lil tough guy for tough guys in tough situations. it aint. none of it. i aint a law expert but there where way more insignificant nuances labeled and sucessfully judged as misleading marketing.
your analogies dont hold any water bc the macbook isnt advertised to be out of the box nasa-approved-moon-flying-stuff and ford isnt advertising f150s as nascar or f1 winning cars. and if they do - the potential customer has all right to think that they now completely have lost sanity.
trust is immensive valueable for customer relations - as a business you shouldnt put it on the line
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Wow i think i had my fill of hyperbole for the year..
 
insta9ves said:
Wow i think i had my fill of hyperbole for the year..
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good for you - we are 11 days into the new year so it was just a matter of time right? the point is you dont think that they view it as mistake and i just disagree for various reasons. so it is advertised as a strong buddy for military or law enforcement, lol, and that they probably shouldnt even care or even can tell the difference at all - like you said, right?
so may i ask you - who is this knife for? its not for users/customers like alchemy1 as the bm rep told him basically. its def not for military or le situations - even a blind man could tell you that. who are left if regular knife users and professionals are out of the equation? internet yt-kiddos? you want benchmade make knifes for yt-commandos? i dont.

craytab said:
Don't feed the troll.
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i have the slight feeling that you just cant handle opinions different than yours and that a public forum isnt the perfectly right place for that stance. could that be the case?
 
BMCGear said:
So let me say that I support companies putting out knives that the advertised heat treat matches the actual heat treat. With m390 and 20cv we're being told it's run higher and it's testing lower. Benchmade never mislead anyone with their 3v heat treat. They intentionally ran it low in an attempt to make it tougher. This did not optimize the steel and the community knew they wanted a higher heat treat. Benchmade made the change.

To me there was no foul play. They had an idea for heat treat, it didn't work, and they changed it. Spyderco does this and gets praised. Sometimes design and execution don't work as you thought it would.

Now, advertising a higher heat treat and it actually being lower is an issue that needs to be resolved.
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Well said :thumbsup:
 
Darkera said:
Why not use your primary account to post in this thread? ;)
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plz grow up kiddo. this is my only account i have ever made on this forum. admins/mods can chime in and give you the certainty that my ip was sparingly seen as guest and never been used at any accounts ever before. i barley ever post anything/anywhere on the internet. if you think i need to hide myself to criticize anything i would suggest you begin to calibrate yourself to atleast boy-like behavior for starters to finaly slowly progress to manhood to atleast be able to check yourself of what you just said. thx
 
Warning for insults
Nbrackett said:
It usually takes A LOT for me to hit the ignore button (only once before) but S stitched lips got there really fast. Bye bye.
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you guys just ultra fragile or have dogs in this race and therefor have to act like you do. you guys are overly obsessed with my persona only that you dont need to deal with arguments about this pathetic knife.
you cry like a child, irgnore me (how dare you hahaha) bc i said that this knife is 100% useless and their marketing misleading? chchchc, i kinda like you. (and objectively just a complete joke in general to see military guys with this flimsy handle - with slogans like - 'optimal strength-to-weight ratio' & 'Looking to fly under the radar?'). :))
sorry that i dont tap you on your shoulder, let you sit on my lap and make you a hot chocolate and tell you that your 27th plastic knife is superb when it isnt.
i like benchmade to release knifes not comical parodies.
 
Maybe another question for the people still wanting to buy a basic model bailout in the future:

Do we have any way to identify pre- and post-rectification bailouts ?
Serial numbers/Batch numbers ?
 
2malice said:
Maybe another question for the people still wanting to buy a basic model bailout in the future:

Do we have any way to identify pre- and post-rectification bailouts ?
Serial numbers/Batch numbers ?
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at this point everything indicates that this never will be the case - one indicator that there even ever was a retification would be if bm do put hrc numbers back up for this knife on their site. if not - than no adjustments were ever made and never will bc just talking is cheaper
one of the bigger official bm euro distros still list them at 60hrc to this day..some others just pulled the numbers with no indication of it like the bm-website
 
Way too much BM politics for me but it's nice to know they're listening to their customers.
 
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