3V vs S35VN characteristics?

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Doesn't CRK run there knives on the soft side 58-59

Not sure what the S35VN blades really are, but that Sebenza edge flattened and rolled very easy in the video...... On 1/4" rope......

S35VN is going to need to be taken a lot harder to offset those issues and that was with a 42 degrees inclusive edge...... That's not good....
 
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When you lower the Alloy content that forms the carbides without adding another carbide former into the matrix there is only one way to go and it's not better. ;)

Yeah, I'm still trying to get past the point where I see something like S35VN and think "That's a whole 5N more than S30V! It MUST be better!"
 
Yeah, I'm still trying to get past the point where I see something like S35VN and think "That's a whole 5N more than S30V! It MUST be better!"


People forget why S35VN was developed in the 1st place. ;)

It was so it would be easier to work with for the manufactures as in easier to grind, easier to finish..... Not exactly things that will raise performance, only hurt them in the end.

It had NOTHING to do with performance at all as S30V is more than strong and tough enough as it is.

It's all marketing, nothing more than that.

Performance just doesn't get better when they lower the wear resistance of an alloy to make it easier to grind, it just doesn't work that way.

We are talking about 4" and under folders here for the most part, not 9" + choppers...

I got a CRK S30V Umnumzaan at 59.5 HRC that I use and have tested and that puppy is fat. :D
 
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People forget why S35VN was developed in the 1st place. ;)

It was so it would be easier to work with for the manufactures as in easier to grind, easier to finish..... Not exactly things that will raise performance, only hurt them in the end.

It had NOTHING to do with performance at all as S30V is more than strong and tough enough as it is.

It's all marketing, nothing more than that.

Performance just doesn't get better when they lower the wear resistance of an alloy to make it easier to grind, it just doesn't work that way.

We are talking about 4" and under folders here for the most part, not 9" + choppers...

I got a CRK S30V Umnumzaan at 59.5 HRC that I use and have tested and that puppy is fat. :D



Jim, thank you for chiming in! I have been crucified over these tests and my findings. You should have seen what went down in the CRK forum after the seb went dull.

As it stands, I am not buying any more S35VN blades. I am going to wait until they figure out that it needs to be ran harder.

I don't care what CATRA testing and all that crap says. S35VN goes dull SUPER fast in real use. I almost feel like the knife industry is BSing the people into thinking this is an improvement. Thanks Jim. :)
 
Jim, thank you for chiming in! I have been crucified over these tests and my findings. You should have seen what went down in the CRK forum after the seb went dull.
Dude, that's like going into a church and pushing different religious agenda.

It took few years before "some" of the CRK fans admitted S30V wasn't at its best for light use knives at 58-59HRC, still the consensus is, "ease" of sharpening overweighs cutting performance. Keep in mind, we're talking about Sebenza, Mnandi etc... I have hard time picturing someone sharpening any of those in the field, using piece of rock... As one of them(CRK fans) summarized, if you want precision build knife get CRK, for high cutting performance and edge retention go somewhere else...

So, in the end, it's not only marketing BS, but people not willing to accept facts, and face the reality...
 
Dude, that's like going into a church and pushing different religious agenda.

It took few years before "some" of the CRK fans admitted S30V wasn't at its best for light use knives at 58-59HRC, still the consensus is, "ease" of sharpening overweighs cutting performance. Keep in mind, we're talking about Sebenza, Mnandi etc... I have hard time picturing someone sharpening any of those in the field, using piece of rock... As one of them(CRK fans) summarized, if you want precision build knife get CRK, for high cutting performance and edge retention go somewhere else...

So, in the end, it's not only marketing BS, but people not willing to accept facts, and face the reality...

That is very true. And I have been slowly but surely learning that most people here aren't really interested in pursuing knowledge. They are more concerned with defending their favorite product no matter how many real world facts are presented. Trust me, it's been a bitter pill to swallow.
 
That is very true. And I have been slowly but surely learning that most people here aren't really interested in pursuing knowledge. They are more concerned with defending their favorite product no matter how many real world facts are presented. Trust me, it's been a bitter pill to swallow.

A bitter pill it is.
 
People forget why S35VN was developed in the 1st place. ;)

It was so it would be easier to work with for the manufactures as in easier to grind, easier to finish..... Not exactly things that will raise performance, only hurt them in the end.

It had NOTHING to do with performance at all as S30V is more than strong and tough enough as it is.
This is exactly why I haven't been at all eager to try S35VN and why I've been extremely skeptical of claims that it offers performance equivalent to S30V in knife applications (especially when compared to S30V with an excellent HT like Paul Bos's used on Bucks, Striders, etc.). Glad to see my intuitions in that regard have been backed up by your and CTS's tests. :thumbup:

As for CRK fanboys and their refusal to accept the results of CTS's tests or anything else that falls short of utter worship of the company's knives, that sounds like par for the course. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, I'm still trying to get past the point where I see something like S35VN and think "That's a whole 5N more than S30V! It MUST be better!"


By all rights S30V should have been named S40V. Then the S35VN would make a little more sense
 
i've had s35vn roll after light tasks such as cutting cardboard. i'm no expert but through use and experience, s30v is superior without question.
 
S35VN rolls and flattens way too easy, it's really not that strong if you are cutting abrasive materials.

I have had exactly the same things happen as in the video and not just cutting rope either.

Wow this is some disheartening news. I was ready to pull the trigger on an Umnumzaan with s35 but now I'm rethinking
 
I'm certainly not gonna say there isn't a problem with the S35VN, but after reading this and a couple other threads on this and another forum, I decided to see how my recently purchased Small Insingo held up. For starters, just yesterday, I had used my knife at the firehouse to cut the couplings off four joints of fire hose without any issue. I didn't see any need to touch up the blade, as it was fine. This was one joint of 65mm line and three joints of 45mm. Not a big deal, but the three joints of 45mm were filthy from time served on the fire ground, so I suspect they were at least as abrasive as any cardboard one might pick up to do test cuts on. Just an hour ago, I went to my garage in search of a few things to cut up. I started with a couple inner cardboard rolls from wrapping paper, which I cut from end to end. Not a big deal, but it went without issue. I then went to the recyclable bin and grabbed a couple pop cans which I cut slices from end to end for anywhere from 6 to 10 cuts. Next, was a 10litre plastic water jug which I made several cuts into. Again, these went without issue and the knife still popped hair off the back of my hand. I'm not saying these are extreme cuts, but theyy're on par with what has been discussed thus far in this thread, so it shows your mileage might vary. I'm not done yet, though, as I went to another box and did similar cuts in the fashion Ankerson did in his video above this, eventhough I only did about 1/4 of the cuts he did. Still, the knife had no problem. I have a 31" BFG All Terrain that has been subject to different cuts in the past, so I stabbed the knife into the sidewall once, but decided against any more for fear of hitting any belts. That being said, the knife still had no problem taking hairs off my hand, eventhough the first 1/8" or so of the tip did show some slight deformation when held in the right light. Back to the water jug for a number of cuts and another box I picked up at the local Coscto for another dozen or so cuts. Again, without issue, so I grabbed another wrapping paper roll and made 5-6 cuts by folding the roll and cutting pieces off it. Finally, I went into the house, grabbed a piece of paper from the printer and proceded to cleanly slice through it for another dozen or so cuts. Other than the slight deformation which I mentioned earlier( I suspect that took place with the hose yesterday, but not certain), the edge was fine and still had the ability to grab a few hairs on the back of my hand and take them out.

Based on what I've viewed and read vs. what I just did, I'm not worried about my knife, anyways. My hope is that if there is an issue, knife companies will square it away, but I can't complain about my experience.
 
I'm certainly not gonna say there isn't a problem with the S35VN, but after reading this and a couple other threads on this and another forum, I decided to see how my recently purchased Small Insingo held up. For starters, just yesterday, I had used my knife at the firehouse to cut the couplings off four joints of fire hose without any issue. I didn't see any need to touch up the blade, as it was fine. This was one joint of 65mm line and three joints of 45mm. Not a big deal, but the three joints of 45mm were filthy from time served on the fire ground, so I suspect they were at least as abrasive as any cardboard one might pick up to do test cuts on. Just an hour ago, I went to my garage in search of a few things to cut up. I started with a couple inner cardboard rolls from wrapping paper, which I cut from end to end. Not a big deal, but it went without issue. I then went to the recyclable bin and grabbed a couple pop cans which I cut slices from end to end for anywhere from 6 to 10 cuts. Next, was a 10litre plastic water jug which I made several cuts into. Again, these went without issue and the knife still popped hair off the back of my hand. I'm not saying these are extreme cuts, but theyy're on par with what has been discussed thus far in this thread, so it shows your mileage might vary. I'm not done yet, though, as I went to another box and did similar cuts in the fashion Ankerson did in his video above this, eventhough I only did about 1/4 of the cuts he did. Still, the knife had no problem. I have a 31" BFG All Terrain that has been subject to different cuts in the past, so I stabbed the knife into the sidewall once, but decided against any more for fear of hitting any belts. That being said, the knife still had no problem taking hairs off my hand, eventhough the first 1/8" or so of the tip did show some slight deformation when held in the right light. Back to the water jug for a number of cuts and another box I picked up at the local Coscto for another dozen or so cuts. Again, without issue, so I grabbed another wrapping paper roll and made 5-6 cuts by folding the roll and cutting pieces off it. Finally, I went into the house, grabbed a piece of paper from the printer and proceded to cleanly slice through it for another dozen or so cuts. Other than the slight deformation which I mentioned earlier( I suspect that took place with the hose yesterday, but not certain), the edge was fine and still had the ability to grab a few hairs on the back of my hand and take them out.

Based on what I've viewed and read vs. what I just did, I'm not worried about my knife, anyways. My hope is that if there is an issue, knife companies will square it away, but I can't complain about my experience.
I'm glad to hear that, and when my small 21 gets here later this month or early next month I will be sure to do some tests and reviews of my own, until then I just don't want to speculate anymore(i.e I don't have any s35 to test)
 
I don't mean any offense, but the cutting you outlined above is no where near as taxing as cutting 9 feet of 3/8 inch sisal rope non stop. It is one of the most demanding things a knife can do.

And also, aluminum cans are extremely easy to cut, and won't damage even the thinnest of edges. At least in my experience.

There is no denying that S35VN is a HUGE step down from S30V. It's been recognized by many people who formally test the steel. Most people won't notice, since they actually never cut anything. Haha
 
I won't take offense at all, but I've held plenty of sisal rope over the years and will put the dirty firehose up against it any day. Thing is, I wasn't doing a test with my knife when I cut with it yesterday, I was just doing what needed to be done during my duties on that particular day shift. And that's how I judge the kit I keep with me-through my real life experiences. If I worked in a rope factory where I was performing countless hours of cuts, your tests would hold far more weight to me. But I'm not about to let your experiences trump my own. No offense intended;)

I'm always looking for the best kit I can come across and hope if there is a real issue with the steel, it will be taken care of. Companies should listen to the users of their products, even if they don't like what they're hearing.
 
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Crimson I thank you for all your videos and your right sisal rope is very tough. I think everyone needs to remember this steel(s35) was made to be easier to work with, therefore I don't ever see it being better than s30 in any way
 
That is very true. And I have been slowly but surely learning that most people here aren't really interested in pursuing knowledge. They are more concerned with defending their favorite product no matter how many real world facts are presented. Trust me, it's been a bitter pill to swallow.

You haven't been a member here that long; go read Cliff Stamp's posting history. I think you'll find it educational on many levels.
 
^^

Yeah S35VN really isn't all that great IMO.

S30V is just a better steel.

I think they went too far the other way with S35VN, but as time goes on that will become very apparent.

I still believe S35VN is a mistake.

If they wanted a steel with 3% Vanadium they should have just used ELMAX as it is very stable and proven instead of gutting S30V.

Like I always say there are no free lunches with steels and with S35VN they took too much away from S30V without adding enough other alloys and they will figure that out hopefully before too long.
Whoa, the datasheet I read shows the same wear resistance as S30V. Are you saying Crucible might have fabricated those results?

And did you get the same impression with Strider's run of S35VN? Also curious if you compared Spyderco's S35VN with their S30V.

The only real reason I ask is because you do have S35VN ranked in the same category here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope

So my question is whether it's the steel or the heat treatment.
 
I'm not at all happy to hear any of this but I am glad to see the uncontested straight shooting going on in this thread. I've seen trolling malcontents try to accuse this forum of protecting this or that company from criticism & being a shill for the industry. Yet this stuff here is making me flinch.
 
Whoa, the datasheet I read shows the same wear resistance as S30V. Are you saying Crucible might have fabricated those results?

And did you get the same impression with Strider's run of S35VN? Also curious if you compared Spyderco's S35VN with their S30V.

The only real reason I ask is because you do have S35VN ranked in the same category here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope

So my question is whether it's the steel or the heat treatment.
I don't think anyone here thinks that Crucible fabricated the results, just that they aren't reflective of real-world experience. What's at issue is how S35VN performs at the thinness typical of a knife edge, as well as how it performs with the particular heat treat used by CRK. CRK runs their steels softer than other companies making blades of comparable size/dimensions (i.e., folders), and while that may not have had too much of a detrimental effect with S30V, it sounds like it doesn't work very well for S35VN (which as others have mentioned, regardless of the industry hype about how it's an "improvement", is basically a neutered version of S30V).
 
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