40 or 9mm?

I'm forgetting something. If you can work it out, test a 40 at the range sometime and see. get a little time in with both and judge from there.
 
I see this a little differently. I always want as much useful power as possible just in case I need it. So I start small and work my way up. .380, 9mm, .40, .45... I think I'll stop there as magazine capacity diminishes.

Anyway, first I'll find a platform I like. I prefer Sig Sauer to Glock. The action is much smoother and the trigger pull is nicer, plus I love single action, pulling the hammer back makes me feel tough. :)

Anyway, a P229 starts at 9mm, to .357 Sig, and .40. 9mm fires very nice out of it. It feels comfortable and you can fire it all day as long as you have the funds for the ammo. I skipped .357 Sig cause the ammo is not as easy to come by and a bit more expensive, I view the difference in price to 9mm to .40 as marginal, a worthwile tradeoff. Anyway, the .40 gives just a little bit more kick which is in proportion to it's additional knockdown power. Since the calibers do not go any higher for it, I will live with the .40.

But it all depends on what you need it for. If you just want to shoot at the range, even a .22 or a .380 will be just fine. If you want self defense or need knockdown power for any reason, then get a caliber you feel will do the job the best. For me, I will take the highest power that I can fire comfortably.
 
raghorn said:
And the Ford is still better than a Chevy. :p

<Ducks head and sprints for the door>
Click to expand...

And a redhead is better than...a poke in the eye with a sharp stick?

But not by much...
 
The .40 cal is supposed to be decent, but still a half measure. I would recommend that you just break down and get a .45 ACP. You won't be disappointed.

In my Police Department we carry the .45 cal H&K USP (decocker only), either in full-size or compact -shooters choice. The full-sized carries 12 rounds, the compact only 10. Both are very nice and very accurate guns.

Off duty I usually carry a five shot Taurus total titanium .44 special because of its small size and weight. Otherwise, I carry my Sig P220.

Chris
 
I'd go for 9mm cause the ammo is cheaper and you can practice more.

My favorite gun to shoot right now is a 9x18 CZ 82. The ammo is cheap and the gun is really accurate, even out to 25 yards offhand:thumbup:

I like the .40 my friend has one and it is awesome. But I like something you can buy a case of and shoot all the time.
 
The .40 cal is supposed to be decent, but still a half measure
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Actually, the .40 can deliver a 180 grain bullet at about 1,000 fps. This is very similar to the popular-for-years 185 grain .45 ACP at about the same velocity. The .40 180, when compared to the 185 .45, has higher sectional density, and can either hold more rounds per platform, or be fired from a 9mm-sized platform. (There is a similar SD when comparing 230-grain .45 to 180-grain .40.)

There is always a tradeoff, and in this case, it's pressure, leaving some who feel more recoil from .40 than from .45 ACP.

In short, the .40 is NOT a "tradeoff" when compared to the .45 ACP. It is only when comparing to the 10mm that such terms apply.

Sectional density of 0.161 with a bullet weight of 180 and diameter of .40".
Sectional density of 0.131 with a bullet weight of 185 and diameter of .45".
Sectional density of 0.162 with a bullet weight of 230 and diameter of .45".
Sectional density of 0.121 with a bullet weight of 135 and diameter of .40".


John, should be doing schoolwork
 
rhino said:
The terminal ballistics differences between modern JHP loads in 9mm and .40 are miniscule.
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What Rhino said. The problem our troops have with the 9mm stem from the ball ammo they must carry. The 45acp is much better in ball loading. It's bigger.

But introduce modern JHP ammo such as that made by Corbon, etc. and the differences in 9, 40, 45 cal ammo diminish considerably.

Most importantly you must hit what you shoot at, the gun must function everytime, and of course, the single most important part of the equation...you must have the will to pull the trigger.

Lots of people own guns, but very few have the will to use them.

Semp
 
Semper Fi said:
What Rhino said. The problem our troops have with the 9mm stem from the ball ammo they must carry. The 45acp is much better in ball loading. It's bigger.

But introduce modern JHP ammo such as that made by Corbon, etc. and the differences in 9, 40, 45 cal ammo diminish considerably.

Most importantly you must hit what you shoot at, the gun must function everytime, and of course, the single most important part of the equation...you must have the will to pull the trigger.

Lots of people own guns, but very few have the will to use them.

Semp
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The will and the skill. Practice. Practice. Practice. You never know if you will have the will until the situation forces itself upon you.

But unless you have the skill also it is VERY hard to back up from shooting at someone. "Oops, just kidding," probably will not work if you have missed, no matter what the caliber.
 
That being said. don't scrimp on discount ammo. Get the best you can afford and practice, practice, practice.
 
I tried the H&K USP a few times. The grip is just too wide to be comfortable, and I don't have small hands. I did like its power and the nice location of the magazine release, but it just didn't feel right in my hands. Guess it would take some getting used to.
 
Semp's right. Whatever you carry, load it with Cor-Bon.

and it's whatever you hit with most reliably.

40 or 9 matters not, if you miss...

Personally, I shoot a Sig P229 in .40.

But when, unfortunately, a mentally imbalanced person with firearms threatened friends & family, I locked the Sig away and put 5 rounds of hmm... #1 buck in the Benelli.

I knew how high my pulse would be racing if I had to use it, and didn't even trust myself to hit with the pistol when lives were at stake.


Ad Astra
 
Aardvark said:
That is a REALLY cool site! Thanks.
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Am I misreading the site? The box is to test "penetration"? What if one were interested in testing stopping power rather than penetration?

(Oh, I know. I'd carry a .45. :D )

(My b-in-l has a sticker: "This is Ford country. On quite nights, you can hear the Chevies rusting.")
 
If you know trouble's coming, and you can't get away, a shoulder arm is the way to go, without a doubt.

I'm partial to Remington Reduced Recoil slugs, myself, but I've long nursed a dream of loading up some .45 JHP at about 1600 fps, for a reduced-recoil load designed for low-pen performance.

John
 
I have carried 357s, 38 specials, 380s, 9mms, a 10mm, a 44 special, and 45 ACPs. Any one of these calibers can kill someone, but the .45 has been reliably doing so for about 100 years. The only benefit that I can see to these smaller calibers is that some of them allow for a higher magazine capacity. My H&K USP carries 12 rounds (of hollow points) in the magazine and one in the chamber. I'm a good shot, so for my needs that is plenty. (I also carry two spare 12 round magazines on my belt.) You can cite all the tests you want, but the .45 ACP has proven itself time and time again. I take no chances and trust my life to a known winner.

If the stuff really hits the fan, I'll get out my H&K 91 .308 with a 30 round mag and really go to town.:)
 
Thomas Linton said:
Am I misreading the site? The box is to test "penetration"? What if one were interested in testing stopping power rather than penetration?
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"Stopping power," at least with respect to common handgun calibers is something of a myth.

Threats are stopped in some combination of the following when hit by pistol bullets:

1. Damage to central nervous system
2. Drop in blood pressure due to bleeding (either internal or external)
3. Psychological reasons

Adequate penetration is necessary for 1 or 2 (the only reliable mechanisms for stopping a threat). Too much is wasted, but better than not enough. It doesn't matter (in the immediate sense) how large in diameter the hole is if the it doesn't penetrate far enough to damage something important.
 
Have two men run at you, and shoot them both. One with a 9mm, and the other with a .44 magnum. See which one hits the ground first.

Stopping power is just that, the ability to STOP whoever is shot form doing anything... most importantly attacking you back, and also living. The force of the .44 magnum bullet entering the body and either stopping, or blowing a gaping hole thorugh the back, will slow his forward momentum down and/or throw him backwards to a greter degree than the 9mm will.

Granted if the first shot is near instantly leathal, taking out the heart, brain, or the spinal cord, either is fine. But when it is not instantly fatal, it is better to have more knockdown power so that the attacker is in less of a position to hurt you.

This isn't really easy to test in a lab, but it has been tested many times over in combat. From what I have heard, the praises of the .45 and .40 stopping power seem much more favorable than the stopping power of the 9mm. if my life depends on it, I would take the one with greater stopping power.
 
Eh.

It's interesting that you've heard that, since I'm not aware of many shooting with .44s to be able to make that determination.

It certainly sounds true, doesn't it? :) I'm also not really sure which .44s you're referencing in combat (since I'm certain you don't mean the Winchester 1866 carbines used by the Turks against the Russians at the Battle of Plevna).

There is no practical "stopping power" with handgun rounds- which is one
of the three major reasons why the most powerful handgun rounds are not typically used in a purely defensive mission: recovery time, since one shot should never be assumed to be enough.

I have little damn faith in psychological factors to deter or stop. Therefore, I would personally just use the mechanical model, and state that machines can be stopped 3 ways:
Hydraulic,
Structural, and
Electrical failure.

Take out enough fluid, structure, or the guidance system= nonfunctional machine. I have little faith in any single round to do this consistently, and I have *no* faith in any single HANDGUN round to do this. I have made and seen made good shots with rifle calibers on deer, and seen Bambi still unfortunately alive long after he should have trotted off over his spiritual horizon. To think that a highly motivated and dangerous individual is going to immediately cease and desist because you used your magic boom stick is fantasy bordering on delusion.

Let me point out a silly little thing about physics: momentum goes both ways. If I use a shoulder-fired weapon at a target, it cannot be expected that I can "knock down" a target of similar size to myself, unless I am also knocked down by the recoil of my weapon. There are, of course, exceptions, such as the rocket launcher, wherein the force is not directed against the shooter. Do you really want to compare the force of any rocket launcher to your mighty .44 Magnum?
 
All defensive handgun calibers are wimpy (compared to rifles and shotguns).
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I'd have to agree with this one. And yet, a very large, (6'5") very angry friend of mine was killed with a single 9mm round.

I think you'd be fine with 9mm, 40, 10mm or 45. I think any of them is fine provided you hit the right spot.
If you miss badly, it wont matter what it was, right?
So training and safety are my new favorite concerns.
I dont like guns with no secondary safeties. The glock has killed a lot of people by accident.

I think I'd go for a Sig in double Auto only or get a nice 1911 from the Novak shop.
If money is a concern, Colt has a range of nice 1911s in all of the abovementioned calibers.
The same is true for the Sig.
 
What more can be said about this?

1st: If you can put the round(s) on target, 9 will be fine- shot placement is where it's at-

All handguns suck when resolving this kind of problem, but here's a clue:

A friend of mine who used to be a LA County EMT told me that when you go to the ER, the DOAs' are mainly the result of .357mag and .45acp rounds.

The rapper 50 cent likes to talk about getting shot 9 times with a 9mm ( a serious case of not using enough gun).

It's all mental masturbation until it doesn't work, then it gets serious!


fwiw-
 
I never made any mention of .44 magnum being used in combat, I just used that analogy as my opening example. The three that I have mentioned in combat are the 9mm (standard M9), the .40 (H&K USP) and the .45 (variety of configurations: 1911, SOCOM).

The point is that there is a difference in stopping power, though it may be only marginal. A pistol is not the ideal weapon to stop somone in their tracks, that is suited towards shotguns and heavier rifles. But I would prefer the higher caliber. Even though a .22 or a .380 can kill a man, a larger round will be more effective. A lot of people like to stay at 9mm, and some stay at .45. I will take the highest caliber I can find which still keeps the weapon practical, whether it be in size, recoil, or magazine capacity.
 
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